I think the way that we're supposed to read the "Ginny asking Harry permission thing" is that since her parents-- legal authority figures-- have forbidden her to fight, she's appealing to Harry because he's probably the only person who could convince them otherwise. But the fact that Harry thinks he has any right whatsoever to say "no" to her is just... ick, particularly since, as you point out, she fights Death Eaters in both OotP and HBP.
I've commented before about the crucio-- so disappointing. I mean, I know that Harry tried to use it in the previous two books, but I always thought that the reason he couldn't was because deep down, he didn't actually want to cause anyone that level of pain, and his attempts to do so were driven only by the fact that someone he loved had just been murdered. The imperios in the previous chapter sucked a bit too, but in so many ways (I think you may have commented to this effect yourself earlier) that's not really much more morally ambiguous than the way that they retcon obliviate all the
( ... )
And, don't you love the way that when Remus turns up, Harry has completely forgotten his whole "parents shouldn't leave their children" thing?
That is an excellent point. Maybe by this point Harry has finally realised they are in a war. Or maybe he just no longer cares once the woman has given birth. :-/
But the fact that Harry thinks he has any right whatsoever to say "no" to her is just... ick
Yeah, exactly. It implies she puts him on the same level as her parents in terms of the control they have over her. Which speaks volumes about their relationship. Even if Harry is respectful or whatever to her, she seems to see him as an authority figure. Ick indeed.
Your whole second paragraph - no point quoting it all back - is spot on. He can't do crucio even when Sirius has been killed because he's just too darn good - which actually ties in quite well with grief/love being what allows him to shut Voldemort out - but he can do it here as a matter of "don't diss my homies, yo". If JKR had played with this idea,
( ... )
Yeah, that one is my new favourite icon. Though I like my cute smiling Ianto too. :)
About Remus-- maybe it's because this time he didn't walk off, but, like Harry, told his little woman to stay at home where it's safe and all (I certainly got the impression when Tonks shows up next chapter that Remus had told her to stay at home).
Yeah, I got that impression too. I wonder if that's supposed to imply the same thing that Harry telling Ginny she can't fight is supposed to imply - i.e. I love you so much I want you out of harm's way. Leaving aside the part where I can't believe, not with a single neuron, that Remus loves Tonks, I think it's interesting that that is presumably meant to be a good, healthy thing. We don't see that dynamic between every couple - Ron and Hermione, for example, work together in the battle - so I wonder what JKR is getting at.
I don't care that JKR knows the names of random unknown people Neville and Luna will hook up with someday, I wish she had instead figured out how more things *work* in her world.
YES. I remember in one of her many interviews-that-make-me-headdesk, she mentioned that magic isn't supposed to be "an exact science", but then there seem to be quite concrete rules for some things, plus they go to school to learn the exact right way of doing spells, so which is it? If the rules were always abstract and magic was supposed to be unexplained and mystical, that would be fine.
I agree with your point about crucio, as well - if for whatever reason it had been presented as necessary, it could have been a really interesting way of developing Harry's character. (Not to mention an interesting comparison with Snape, who of course had to AK Dumbledore when he didn't want to...)
she mentioned that magic isn't supposed to be "an exact science", but then there seem to be quite concrete rules for some things, plus they go to school to learn the exact right way of doing spells, so which is it?
I supposed it could be both, just two different approaches to magic. For example, The Magicians and its sequel The Magician King have a school with pretty strict rules involved in the magic they teach, but there's also a sort of "home-schooling" or underground training path you can follow out in the real world, where stuff just gets made up. One's very posh (though the fox sex thing is kind of weird LOL!), the other is a sort of "school of hard knocks/prove your worth every day" approach
( ... )
I get the impression she hasn't ever fully decided what the rules of her fictional world are I agree with you and semielliptical on this one. It seems like JKR wrote herself into various magical corners in DH and just decided to make up complex, often nonsensical loop holes. Most of the magic in DH, really, is unnecessarily complex. There's a bit too much "you can access x only under the full moon on a Thursday night, if you're hopping on one leg and singing the American national anthem - backwards" for my taste. And she seems to break some of the magical (and ethical) rules that she's made up before. Harry's cloak is super magical and such, can't be summoned, etc - and yet I seem to recall Moody's eye could see through it. But maybe I'm thinking about it wrong.
although maybe McGonagall just really likes cats Now my mind is heading in an Aberforth/goat direction. I'm not sure which is more disturbing.
This was the perfect reward for finishing the CSS. Thank you.
she seems to break some of the magical (and ethical) rules that she's made up before
Yeah, this bothers me a lot. We see (for example) water and flowers and chairs and sleeping bags and live animals being created by magic, but you can't conjure food? It's possible to produce heat and light from a wand - so what supplies the energy for that? And the cloak inconsistencies, as you mention. As I've said in another comment, I wouldn't mind if there were no rules at all, and the kind of magic we see was the fairy-godmother kind, but there do seem to be rules. It forces your disbelief back.
Now my mind is heading in an Aberforth/goat direction. I'm not sure which is more disturbing.
LOL. Well, at least McGonagall can turn into a cat - and cat/cat is less worrying than human/goat any day... isn't it? (I'm sure I once saw McGonagall/Mrs Norris fic somewhere - that was weird.)
I've seen (almost) cat!Snape/cat!McGonagall/Mrs. Norris. It was promptly followed by Snupin - in human form. It... worked, actually. But I have read far stranger pairings.
The weirdest I think I've ever read was NC-17 Snape/Giant Squid that was deadly serious (I believe it included the phrase "tentacles wrapped around the smooth velvet of my cock") but what you just said there... wow. That's pretty special. I want to know what the "far stranger pairings" were! :D
Love your list of Those Who Are Truly Badass, I think the one from Girls Aloud you were thinking of was "tragic" and "lonely" Cheryl Cole (ahem).
Great wankage again. Laughed out loud at the Ruxpin picture! Fabulous. Where did you find that hideous thing, though I'm not sure I want to know. The funny thing is that Voldemort & the snake really did make me think of Britney Spears & snake too or maybe Salma Hayek in From Dusk Till Dawn, though he probably isn't that cool.
I am truly in awe you managed to find so much to say about this chapter because really, nothing much happens, aside from the Snape - McGonagall fight which was pretty cool and there was of course the Potter gallant crucio. Looking forward to your thoughts on the next one :D
Thanks for the compliments. :) Ruxpin was, I think, courtesy of some ebay retailer specialising in 80s toys (it's a Werebear, something I wanted very much as a kid, mainly because its head and paws were reversible).
or maybe Salma Hayek in From Dusk Till Dawn, though he probably isn't that cool
Voldemort knows the diadem is in the room of requirement, doesn't he? So why would he be so worried about Harry getting into the Ravenclaw common room?
I think it's because he suspected Harry would figure out that the last Horcrux was something of Ravenclaw's, but Harry wouldn't know where it was, so he'd look for it in the Ravenclaw common room.
It's just that... well, I get the impression she hasn't ever fully decided what the rules of her fictional world are, and rather than simply admit that, she tries to get around it by putting in hippy-dippy bullshit about how circles have no beginning and transfigured objects disappear into nothing, which is the same as everything, which makes no sense.I've commented about this before and everyone else has already talked about it, so I'll just say that Jo's lack of a set of rules is one of main problems in the books
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Oh my god, don't be sorry! I'm always so flattered anyone wants to comment on anything I say - seriously, I am such a review whore. :D
I think it's because he suspected Harry would figure out that the last Horcrux was something of Ravenclaw's, but Harry wouldn't know where it was, so he'd look for it in the Ravenclaw common room.
... OK, that works. (BTW, I think it's funny how I'm always like "RAH RAH RAH THIS IS STUPID" and you're like "Well, how about this explanation" and I'm like "... Yeah, good point". :D )
First of all, a stunning spell would have knocked him out and taken care of the problem
Yeah, exactly - and earlier in this book, Harry is all about using disarming or, at worst, stunning spells because he's just that good/noble/etc. It seems quite out-of-character for him to suddenly be both able and willing to perform crucio now.
I can better understand the excessive use of the Imperius Curse, but wouldn't a stunner have worked just as well half the time? McGonagall could have stunned Amycus and taken his wand instead
( ... )
Comments 39
I've commented before about the crucio-- so disappointing. I mean, I know that Harry tried to use it in the previous two books, but I always thought that the reason he couldn't was because deep down, he didn't actually want to cause anyone that level of pain, and his attempts to do so were driven only by the fact that someone he loved had just been murdered. The imperios in the previous chapter sucked a bit too, but in so many ways (I think you may have commented to this effect yourself earlier) that's not really much more morally ambiguous than the way that they retcon obliviate all the ( ... )
Reply
And, don't you love the way that when Remus turns up, Harry has completely forgotten his whole "parents shouldn't leave their children" thing?
That is an excellent point. Maybe by this point Harry has finally realised they are in a war. Or maybe he just no longer cares once the woman has given birth. :-/
But the fact that Harry thinks he has any right whatsoever to say "no" to her is just... ick
Yeah, exactly. It implies she puts him on the same level as her parents in terms of the control they have over her. Which speaks volumes about their relationship. Even if Harry is respectful or whatever to her, she seems to see him as an authority figure. Ick indeed.
Your whole second paragraph - no point quoting it all back - is spot on. He can't do crucio even when Sirius has been killed because he's just too darn good - which actually ties in quite well with grief/love being what allows him to shut Voldemort out - but he can do it here as a matter of "don't diss my homies, yo". If JKR had played with this idea, ( ... )
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About Remus-- maybe it's because this time he didn't walk off, but, like Harry, told his little woman to stay at home where it's safe and all (I certainly got the impression when Tonks shows up next chapter that Remus had told her to stay at home).
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Ianto icons FTW. I need more. :D
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(The comment has been removed)
YES. I remember in one of her many interviews-that-make-me-headdesk, she mentioned that magic isn't supposed to be "an exact science", but then there seem to be quite concrete rules for some things, plus they go to school to learn the exact right way of doing spells, so which is it? If the rules were always abstract and magic was supposed to be unexplained and mystical, that would be fine.
I agree with your point about crucio, as well - if for whatever reason it had been presented as necessary, it could have been a really interesting way of developing Harry's character. (Not to mention an interesting comparison with Snape, who of course had to AK Dumbledore when he didn't want to...)
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I supposed it could be both, just two different approaches to magic. For example, The Magicians and its sequel The Magician King have a school with pretty strict rules involved in the magic they teach, but there's also a sort of "home-schooling" or underground training path you can follow out in the real world, where stuff just gets made up. One's very posh (though the fox sex thing is kind of weird LOL!), the other is a sort of "school of hard knocks/prove your worth every day" approach ( ... )
Reply
I agree with you and semielliptical on this one. It seems like JKR wrote herself into various magical corners in DH and just decided to make up complex, often nonsensical loop holes. Most of the magic in DH, really, is unnecessarily complex. There's a bit too much "you can access x only under the full moon on a Thursday night, if you're hopping on one leg and singing the American national anthem - backwards" for my taste. And she seems to break some of the magical (and ethical) rules that she's made up before. Harry's cloak is super magical and such, can't be summoned, etc - and yet I seem to recall Moody's eye could see through it. But maybe I'm thinking about it wrong.
although maybe McGonagall just really likes cats
Now my mind is heading in an Aberforth/goat direction. I'm not sure which is more disturbing.
This was the perfect reward for finishing the CSS. Thank you.
Reply
she seems to break some of the magical (and ethical) rules that she's made up before
Yeah, this bothers me a lot. We see (for example) water and flowers and chairs and sleeping bags and live animals being created by magic, but you can't conjure food? It's possible to produce heat and light from a wand - so what supplies the energy for that? And the cloak inconsistencies, as you mention. As I've said in another comment, I wouldn't mind if there were no rules at all, and the kind of magic we see was the fairy-godmother kind, but there do seem to be rules. It forces your disbelief back.
Now my mind is heading in an Aberforth/goat direction. I'm not sure which is more disturbing.
LOL. Well, at least McGonagall can turn into a cat - and cat/cat is less worrying than human/goat any day... isn't it? (I'm sure I once saw McGonagall/Mrs Norris fic somewhere - that was weird.)
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The weirdest I think I've ever read was NC-17 Snape/Giant Squid that was deadly serious (I believe it included the phrase "tentacles wrapped around the smooth velvet of my cock") but what you just said there... wow. That's pretty special. I want to know what the "far stranger pairings" were! :D
Reply
Great wankage again. Laughed out loud at the Ruxpin picture! Fabulous. Where did you find that hideous thing, though I'm not sure I want to know. The funny thing is that Voldemort & the snake really did make me think of Britney Spears & snake too or maybe Salma Hayek in From Dusk Till Dawn, though he probably isn't that cool.
I am truly in awe you managed to find so much to say about this chapter because really, nothing much happens, aside from the Snape - McGonagall fight which was pretty cool and there was of course the Potter gallant crucio. Looking forward to your thoughts on the next one :D
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Thanks for the compliments. :) Ruxpin was, I think, courtesy of some ebay retailer specialising in 80s toys (it's a Werebear, something I wanted very much as a kid, mainly because its head and paws were reversible).
or maybe Salma Hayek in From Dusk Till Dawn, though he probably isn't that cool
I LOL'd. :D
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I think it's because he suspected Harry would figure out that the last Horcrux was something of Ravenclaw's, but Harry wouldn't know where it was, so he'd look for it in the Ravenclaw common room.
It's just that... well, I get the impression she hasn't ever fully decided what the rules of her fictional world are, and rather than simply admit that, she tries to get around it by putting in hippy-dippy bullshit about how circles have no beginning and transfigured objects disappear into nothing, which is the same as everything, which makes no sense.I've commented about this before and everyone else has already talked about it, so I'll just say that Jo's lack of a set of rules is one of main problems in the books ( ... )
Reply
I think it's because he suspected Harry would figure out that the last Horcrux was something of Ravenclaw's, but Harry wouldn't know where it was, so he'd look for it in the Ravenclaw common room.
... OK, that works. (BTW, I think it's funny how I'm always like "RAH RAH RAH THIS IS STUPID" and you're like "Well, how about this explanation" and I'm like "... Yeah, good point". :D )
First of all, a stunning spell would have knocked him out and taken care of the problem
Yeah, exactly - and earlier in this book, Harry is all about using disarming or, at worst, stunning spells because he's just that good/noble/etc. It seems quite out-of-character for him to suddenly be both able and willing to perform crucio now.
I can better understand the excessive use of the Imperius Curse, but wouldn't a stunner have worked just as well half the time? McGonagall could have stunned Amycus and taken his wand instead ( ... )
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