Well, the issue is that the whole age group isn't included at all. So far, the Olde Guarde (who started when they were that age) has continued to alter things to fit their own wants and needs. And, since they're in charge, they can. 20 years from now, they're going to look around and wonder why there isn't anybody to take over
( ... )
Ah, interesting. Around here, people tend to get included. Sometimes more on the baronial or local level than the kindgom, but included nontheless. We have a couple of Baronage in the 30-something range, and some very active college campuses, not to mention a good group of friendly 30-somethings who make 20-somethings feel welcome.
Inter-kingdom anthro strikes again, I suppose.
(Huh, I just realized I've reached my technically-20-years-in-the-SCA mark. With some significant periods of inactivity, mind)
FWIW - I concentrated on the heavy sphere, because that's where it's most measureable. :-)
The ONLY reason that you have as many aging Kings as we do is because nobody REALLY wants to teach the young sticks how it's done. Or the deck is stacked against them from the start (i.e. East Kingdom). Why stay, if you have to put in 10-20 years of journeying up the Cursus Honorum before "they" will let you have the Big Cookie? No matter how talented you are or which Big Cookie you're interested in.
I like the idea of having the queen's (or baroness' or countess' or ... etc) ladies in waiting. Even knowing that I, myself, would never want to join the group because the one thing in life I do not need is yet another source of projects. (My plates? All full. Someone keeps adding plates. I know my plates are full because I've already donated 7+ yards of tablet weaving this summer, and will be sending two more to Pennsic for the Knowne Worlde Art Auction.) What I've started doing, at every event I can, is setting up an artisan's area. I bring one or more looms, and a table, which has nibbles on it all day long. Friends bring sewing, and embroidery, and we all enjoy the shade of the pop-up. That way I can enjoy both the company, and the view, and avoid the heat stroke. Sigh. Need to make it to more cold-weather events.
A minor nitpick; you're confusing lose (as in people going away) and loose (as in not standing firmly but wobbling). This drove me nuts for a while until I saw the problem. :)
Another part of the issue is that the hard-working people DO tend to get burned out... not because there is no one else TO do things. But because a lot of people have to be asked, specifically. They don't feel worthy, otherwise.
But if you were relatively new, young, and didn't know many folks, wouldn't you feel more "special" if you were invited to be one of the Queen's Ladies? Given a sash to wear at Royal Progress events, somewhere special to sit, and the opportunity to work on a little project for HRM?
But the thing is, SCA-wise I am relatively new. I just started my fourth year playing. :) (I also turned 40 just over a week ago. This may be relevant. However, there were other groups I briefly played with as a twenty-something; the answers below in part reflect that experience
( ... )
I'm not saying make every young lady who joins a Lady in Waiting just because she's young. ;-) I'm saying pick out a small passel of them who have been around the Society about 6-12 months and look like they'd enjoy a new perspective on things
( ... )
All good points ... certainly some folks I know were none too thrilled that the first King of Atlantia was also the King for Atlantia's 30th Anniversary Celebration. And stuck us with a bunch of stupid sumptuary laws to boot
( ... )
I'm not so certain they're unwilling to "unplug" - I think they just don't find a comfortable environment to step into. They're not met with open arms by the adults. And the groups of kids who grew up in the SCA and now are in their late teens and early twenties are, frankly, also not a very welcoming crowd. They all know each other, they know the SCA, and they're condescending to the nOoBs in a way that only the young can REALLY pull off
( ... )
There is a real problem of not wanting to share the toys; part of it is laziness "Lord Bubba coordinated classes at the last ten events, so we asked him to do it again" because we couldn't be bothered to find a new person and mentor them in it. *sigh*
My husband likes to complain about the local Slovenian community for this; when he was young he and a bunch of his peers were told "We do this, you go away" and so they did... and then twenty years later they're wondering how to get young people involved. Guys? You pushed them away.
Best way to keep and retain newcomers is to get them active and participating. Let them volunteer. Yeah, they may not do it as well as Lord Bubba, but Lord Bubba had to learn too at one point.
Just my two cents/rant.
We're very fortunate here in Cleftlands to have had an influx of young newcommers. Largely due to recruiting a few recent college graduates who've recruited their friends who are still in school ;)
If you've got a cadre of local students that is bringing along friends, you've got lightning in a bottle. ;-)
You've also got the advantage of having one lovely, gracious Baroness who has just been succeeded by another lovely, gracious lady. That's a bigger help than I can state, as well.
But, yes. The "My Sandbox!!" mentality makes me completely insane. :-(
Now I'm sort of sad for your husband. Though he seems to have weathered the incident with no obvious emotional trauma. ;-)
I don't know if some of it is the result of the fact that the SCA is largely made up of people who for one reason or another felt like "outsiders" for part of their lives or not. You'd think they'd be more prone to be careful of creating that atmosphere for others, but instead they seem to be more prone to do it.
And of course, there's the familiar old round-about where one person or small groups runs something for years and years and years, refusing anybody else's help. And then start complaining about being burned out, tired of it, but that no one else will do it. O.o
*sigh*
But so many, many things are "Lady Moondrip's thing" or "Master Chuck's job" and so on, and so forth. So the only way to be allowed to do anything is to get far enough into Lady Moondrip's good graces to earn her tablescraps. Etc., etc.
*shrug* It is fringe-y. And it attracts a fringe-y sort of crowd. Unfortunately, it's sometimes a group with some of the worst social skills on the planet.
I'm just sayin': Current evidence indicates an aging of the organization as a whole. You can let that continue, or you can put some effort into reversing it.
Yep, 20 somethings can be a pain. And, for the record, I'm not suggesting letting the "Ladies" in the Royalty Room, etc. But a dedicated wrangler and some set-aside space along with a little cache to the position will be attractive.
And, as John points out: If you want the younger set, attract the girls. The boys will follow. Create a more useful learning environment for the boys (especially where heavy weapons are concerned) and the girls will stick around to watch.
In other words - make use of the pack mentality and need for "display" that is present in that age group. It will improve the health of the organization overall.
From my (limited) experience, I think many colleges and universities have, since the 1970s, made it significantly harder for off-campus organizations to establish student chapters. A lot of the rules and regulations were probably put into place to keep out the Moonies and cults and whatnot. But, basically, students have to instigate organizations from within the university, and if they've never even heard of the SCA, well, it's a catch-22
( ... )
Oh, trust me, I'm familiar with the red tape. They impose those restrictions even on meetings - we had to buy pop and cookies from University Housing, rather than order out of pizza if we were using a room in the student union or some such. And that was even for dorm meetings. Yes on the expensive!
The situation varies from Uni to Uni - Sometimes having enough of a student presence to be a registered student organization is worth it in access to or discounts on certain spaces. Sometimes it isn't.
However, the crux of the matter is that nurturing a student population will probably never be that "worth it" to the permanent residents of the local group in a college town. And yet, it is "worth it" to the SCA as a whole. But that worth is so nebulous and so "far away" that it's hard for the local group to justify all that effort that never pays off on their radar screen.
Hence, my suggestions on expanding the ability to hook and keep the age group on more of a Kingdom-wide level.
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Inter-kingdom anthro strikes again, I suppose.
(Huh, I just realized I've reached my technically-20-years-in-the-SCA mark. With some significant periods of inactivity, mind)
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The ONLY reason that you have as many aging Kings as we do is because nobody REALLY wants to teach the young sticks how it's done. Or the deck is stacked against them from the start (i.e. East Kingdom). Why stay, if you have to put in 10-20 years of journeying up the Cursus Honorum before "they" will let you have the Big Cookie? No matter how talented you are or which Big Cookie you're interested in.
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A minor nitpick; you're confusing lose (as in people going away) and loose (as in not standing firmly but wobbling). This drove me nuts for a while until I saw the problem. :)
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Another part of the issue is that the hard-working people DO tend to get burned out... not because there is no one else TO do things. But because a lot of people have to be asked, specifically. They don't feel worthy, otherwise.
But if you were relatively new, young, and didn't know many folks, wouldn't you feel more "special" if you were invited to be one of the Queen's Ladies? Given a sash to wear at Royal Progress events, somewhere special to sit, and the opportunity to work on a little project for HRM?
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My husband likes to complain about the local Slovenian community for this; when he was young he and a bunch of his peers were told "We do this, you go away" and so they did... and then twenty years later they're wondering how to get young people involved. Guys? You pushed them away.
Best way to keep and retain newcomers is to get them active and participating. Let them volunteer. Yeah, they may not do it as well as Lord Bubba, but Lord Bubba had to learn too at one point.
Just my two cents/rant.
We're very fortunate here in Cleftlands to have had an influx of young newcommers. Largely due to recruiting a few recent college graduates who've recruited their friends who are still in school ;)
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You've also got the advantage of having one lovely, gracious Baroness who has just been succeeded by another lovely, gracious lady. That's a bigger help than I can state, as well.
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Now I'm sort of sad for your husband. Though he seems to have weathered the incident with no obvious emotional trauma. ;-)
I don't know if some of it is the result of the fact that the SCA is largely made up of people who for one reason or another felt like "outsiders" for part of their lives or not. You'd think they'd be more prone to be careful of creating that atmosphere for others, but instead they seem to be more prone to do it.
And of course, there's the familiar old round-about where one person or small groups runs something for years and years and years, refusing anybody else's help. And then start complaining about being burned out, tired of it, but that no one else will do it. O.o
*sigh*
But so many, many things are "Lady Moondrip's thing" or "Master Chuck's job" and so on, and so forth. So the only way to be allowed to do anything is to get far enough into Lady Moondrip's good graces to earn her tablescraps. Etc., etc.
Reply
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It is fringe-y. And it attracts a fringe-y sort of crowd. Unfortunately, it's sometimes a group with some of the worst social skills on the planet.
I'm just sayin': Current evidence indicates an aging of the organization as a whole. You can let that continue, or you can put some effort into reversing it.
Yep, 20 somethings can be a pain. And, for the record, I'm not suggesting letting the "Ladies" in the Royalty Room, etc. But a dedicated wrangler and some set-aside space along with a little cache to the position will be attractive.
And, as John points out: If you want the younger set, attract the girls. The boys will follow. Create a more useful learning environment for the boys (especially where heavy weapons are concerned) and the girls will stick around to watch.
In other words - make use of the pack mentality and need for "display" that is present in that age group. It will improve the health of the organization overall.
Reply
Reply
The situation varies from Uni to Uni - Sometimes having enough of a student presence to be a registered student organization is worth it in access to or discounts on certain spaces. Sometimes it isn't.
However, the crux of the matter is that nurturing a student population will probably never be that "worth it" to the permanent residents of the local group in a college town. And yet, it is "worth it" to the SCA as a whole. But that worth is so nebulous and so "far away" that it's hard for the local group to justify all that effort that never pays off on their radar screen.
Hence, my suggestions on expanding the ability to hook and keep the age group on more of a Kingdom-wide level.
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