What makes a fandom popular?

[feliciacraft]

(ETA: Anonymous replies screened but enabled.)

So I’ve been thinking about what attributes in canon material-be it a book, a movie, a TV show, an anime series or whatever-tend to create large, popular fandoms.

Comments

[winegums]

I think part of it has to do with genre. Like Friends/Sex and the City or True Detective 1 were hugely popular/acclaimed, but I don't think you find many people writing Friends or Seinfeld fiction. While Buffy has a massive and active fandom to this day, and it never got even half the recognition/press the others I've named did.

And SFF/anime etc tends to draw types who are likely to be more active in engaging with other fans and wanting to puzzle things out when they're not to their satisfaction - basically, the hardcore fans, the kind you'd call a fandom in the first place. As you pointed out, that usually happens when there's a cool setting or world building, or a really attention-grabbing concept (like Sherlock Holmes in the 20th century). And of course, the writing, casting (for movie/tv series) and ships do matter.

[feliciacraft]

Hmm, yeah, I think you make a good point there -- sitcoms probably don't draw a lot of fanfic writers, and SFF/anime fans are self-selecting to be more engaged with the material and other fans.

When it comes to Sherlock, though, it's always been popular, modern setting or not. (Jeremy Brett will always be my Sherlock.) I suspect Johnlock is a huge draw there, because it will never be canon, and that drives people to create their own slash material.

[winegums]

true, Sherlock Holmes has been a fandom for over a century (I mean, there is a reason there are Holmes-themed landmarks all over the real Baker Street, how would that happen if not for fans? Even if they don't call themselves a fandom per se), it's the serialised nature and genre that does it I guess.

For books, it's extremely rare to see standalone books get huge fandoms, that mainly happens to books in series (HP, Discworld, Game of Thrones, etc etc) so when an author gives you so many books worth of material to use as canon, it attracts more of a fandom. Same goes for standalone movies, even genre ones, I think those rarely get ficced on a large scale.

[tei_lj]

YES YES Jeremy Brett with be Sherlock Holmes forever.

[rbfvid]

Can't speak for everyone, but IMO the most enaging fandoms are usually the ones that are based on a good but uneven source. The source with the huuuuuge holes that need filling, so people jump in to fix them. (I initially mistyped it as "fic them", which was actually more accurate.)
Like, I love "Good Wife" and "unReal", but I'm perfectly satisfied with them as they are. There are no blanks to fill (at least, for me).
When with "Buffy", it was "oh, this is great, but what about...?" all the way along. There were so many things that I wanted to see explained or elaborated. The cliffhanger ending of "Angel" was the final straw for me.

[feliciacraft]

That's a very good point. Uneven material leaves room for fans to fill in the gaps and explore alternatives and come up with fanon explanations. Joss is a genius in that regard. He will intentionally fade to black at the end of scene where characters are faced with a crucial decision.

[kikimay]

This is a great topic and I'm very curious to understand more about it, since I have so many questions

[feliciacraft]

All good points!

Yup, fandom consists of mostly female authors. Also, other traditionally underrepresented people of mainstream media: racial/ethnic minorities, LGBTQA+. So maybe fandom draws in a subversive crowd, those who are seeking an outlet for self-expression not actualized in mainstream media?

I'm glad you brought up the point about secondary characters. Supporting characters that are interesting and three-dimensional but by definition under-explored in canon make great fanfic material!

I think your point about empathy for a character means the characters have to be relatable. They may be superheros or space aliens, but they need to embody the human condition, and mirror the things we want and care about in life.

I absolutely think non-canon ships draw a ton of fans. Like Sherlock Homles/John Watson. I've shipped them for like forever! So when the new Sherlock aired, I *had* to watch it. :)

[kikimay]

So maybe fandom draws in a subversive crowd, those who are seeking an outlet for self-expression not actualized in mainstream media?

I think so, yes. Like, if you go on Tumblr now, you see a lot of POC Hermione and Harry, which is very cool. Also I think the fandom provides a source of sadisfaction for fans who think their character is misanderstood by the author or not fully explored.

And again, yes: couples like Holmes and Watson, for example! Conan Doyle would never make them canon (Idk, would he object if we ask his spirit now or whatever? XD) So maybe you get really involved with them and think that THEY JUST BELONG TOGETHER and you know it would never happen so, thank God, there are fanfics!

Maybe a fandom is popular when there are a lot of LGBTA issues about it?

[feliciacraft]

> Maybe a fandom is popular when there are a lot of LGBTA issues about it?

Maybe it's true for some fans, depending on the show/book/movie? I mean, where else would you see Harry/Draco, for example? Certainly not in canon!

[torrilin]

There's a kind of "shape" to universes that leave room for other creators. While Young Wizards fandom is tiny, there's space in the canon the books give for other stories than Diane Duane might write. And Diane's been real clear that was a deliberate choice on her part. Not all her original stuff is as well suited to having fandom make stuff. (and having a creator who makes sure to leave space and nurture the fandom sure doesn't hurt) Looking at some of the stuff she or Marjorie Liu or Kelly Sue DeConnick write about how you make a universe for many creators is probably worth it. (there's probably other useful folks too, but I find it's usually better to look at stuff from female creators because they tend to point out things like how to include female characters, or black characters, or Hispanic ones

[feliciacraft]

> Book fandoms tend to have a very different rhythm than TV or movie fandoms.

I think you're right about that. I remember waiting desperately for the next Harry Potter book to come out, and fandom activity would come in bursts. Basically, every time a leak or some news came out. In between, we filled out time analyzing old material TO DEATH, because there isn't much new to obsess over. Predictions are done based on close reading of canon material, or the reading of tea leaves (which, in HP, *is* canon). ;)

Then there was absolute frenzy when the book was finally published. There were advance orders. Midnight book release parties. Lines that wrapped around bookstores (at a time where there were physical bookstores...sigh). A TV show with a weekly schedule is much more focused on fresh content.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "hostile creators"? Insensitivity to fandom? Total disregard for women, minorities, etc.?

[torrilin]

Hostile creators == DMCA takedown notices on many kinds of fannish activity. Fanfic frequently gets targeted. But fan art can be an issue too. Usually meta and analysis are safe. Usually. But a particularly intent creator may go after that too. (most of my fandoms are more book centric, and a number have had pretty hostile creators, so I am a huge fan of OTW and the legal cases that are working to protect fannish activity) Diana Gabaldon and Anne Rice are both notorious for this. And Robert Jordan wasn't too fanfic friendly as I recall. Creators with a heavy TV or comics background like Joss Whedon and Diane Duane tend to be MUCH less antsy about fans.

Racist/sexist/abusive creators happen too, but they don't necessarily hate the whole concept of fandom and all its' works.

[feliciacraft]

I haven't witnessed DMCA takedown notices in action--that must be terrifying to get as a fan! I, too, am all too glad that the OTW exists to advocate on behalf of fandom content creators. I know that fanvids sometimes disappear from YouTube due to takedown requests. So disappointing.

[velvetwhip]

I'm with those who say it's about filling in the gaps. Let's face it, the Buffyverse is wonderful, but there are a LOT of gaps.

Gabrielle

[feliciacraft]

I'm with you on the gappiness of the Buffyverse. There are so many fascinating elements introduced but under-explored: other dimensions, alternative realities, human soul vs. demon soul, vengeance demons, Heaven and Hell and afterlife, source of power and magic and their manoeuvrability, and even as basic as vampire physiology (bearing as many similarities as differences to other verses)... We'll *never* run out of material as writers. *Sqee*! :)

[slaymesoftly]

Agreed - that may be one of the most important things. Besides the characters we care about (and enjoying seeing/reading about) there are just so very many things that could have gone differently!