Comments | fangs_fur_fey: Topic of the Week - You Can't Get There From Here

jer_bear711 in fangs_fur_fey

Topic of the Week - You Can't Get There From Here

Mar 01, 2009 23:04

In January and February, stacia_kane had a wonderful series of posts here at FFF about the three-act structure. During the first post (concerning, not surprisingly, Act One), a related discussion broke out in the comments over our feelings/preferences regarding outlines. I made kind of a long-winded comment about something I'd noticed:

( Edited version of Jeri's ruminations. )

jeri smith-ready, topic of the week

Comments 38

alanajoli March 2 2009, 14:10:50 UTC

I'll work differently on different projects. If I have a specific length I'm going toward (or if I already know where things are going to end in the story), I need to have a shape of the novel in my head before I write it. This is especially true when I'm already working with editors or am writing in a shared world--other people are involved with how my story impacts the setting, so it's important to let them know from the start where I'm going and what I'm doing. My pet project right now, however, doesn't really know what it wants to be yet. All of the ideas are in my head, but I'm really not sure how it's all going to fit together, and everything I'm writing right now could wind up on the cutting room floor at the end. But until I get a feel for the shape, I can't even begin to outline it.

jer_bear711 March 2 2009, 20:00:46 UTC

My pet project right now, however, doesn't really know what it wants to be yet. All of the ideas are in my head, but I'm really not sure how it's all going to fit together, and everything I'm writing right now could wind up on the cutting room floor at the end. But until I get a feel for the shape, I can't even begin to outline it.

Absolutely--some projects need time to grow and breathe before we lock them into an outline.

cathellisen March 2 2009, 14:16:32 UTC

I don't outline until I have the first few chapter underway. then I sit back with freemind and mindmap for a bit - perhaps 5 or 10 scenes ahead.

I outline in my head: I dream, I imagine, I roleplay. When I find a sequence of events that clicks, I make notes in my mind map. All of these can and sometimes do change as the story progresses and I learn more about the characters and the world.

So it's a very amorphous sort of outline. It guides me for when I feel overwhelmed by the book, and at the same time I don't feel tied to anything.

Make sense?

I consider my first draft my real outline, because from there I have the whole of the story mapped out in a way I can play with in the subsequent drafts.

jer_bear711 March 2 2009, 20:05:17 UTC

Absolutely makes great sense. Do you use a mindmap software? I tried Mind Mapper once to organize revision notes--it was very helpful. I really like your idea of adding notes to it as you go along.

I consider my first draft my real outline, because from there I have the whole of the story mapped out in a way I can play with in the subsequent drafts.

Me, too--the rough draft is like a pencil sketch. I can easily erase parts of it, and no one will ever know. ;-)

cathellisen March 2 2009, 20:07:00 UTC

I do, I use Freemind. It's super simple and dead easy to add notes to.

http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

jer_bear711 March 2 2009, 23:27:18 UTC

Cool, thanks! I'll check it out.

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jer_bear711 March 2 2009, 20:08:51 UTC

That's a good point about trying to force situations--we can envision the perfect ending or scene, but when we arrive there, it might feel completely wrong. It's good to be open to change and listen to what the story is telling us in the moment.

(The comment has been removed)

jer_bear711 March 2 2009, 23:30:20 UTC

I had this happen last week. Came to the climactic scene which had sounded so amazing in the outline...and realized it made no sense. I wrote a sketchy version of it for lack of a ready alternative, but it'll definitely come out in the rewrite. :-)

kellymeding March 2 2009, 15:18:09 UTC

When I first started writing novels, I used outlines. I was still very new to it, and the idea of hashing out four hundred pages of prose without a plan terrified me. I needed the road map, and they were very, very detailed. Scene-by-scene outlines. However, by the fourth novel I started losing interest. In outlining the book, I'd already discovered the journey. I knew how it all turned out (it also didn't help that this particular novel kept trying to go against the established outline, and I kept pounding it back into submission ( ... )

jer_bear711 March 2 2009, 23:32:07 UTC

Sometimes I'll come up with a scene six chapters down the road. Sometimes I'll even plan out two or three scenes ahead of where I'm currently writing.

I like this approach--some call it "leapfrogging". Someone also compared it to driving as far as your headlights would illuminate, and then when you get to that point, the headlights illuminate a little farther down the road, etc.

kellymeding March 3 2009, 00:00:37 UTC

Headlights. I like that explanation.

vivaciousvivi March 2 2009, 16:26:47 UTC

I used to use an outline. A bare-bones one. With maybe a sentence or two about each scene. But I found when I got stuck on something the outline didn't help me, but in fact hindered me because I was so concerned on following it that I didn't let myself consider other possibilities other than the ones I already wrote down.

But now I write completely organic and I love it. I've been writing my best stuff. I don't ever want to write off an outline again. Ever!

jer_bear711 March 2 2009, 23:34:30 UTC

Good for you! Is your editor on board with this approach, or are you submitting full mss instead of proposals, to avoid the dreaded outline?