Lovely pictures! Especially the second, the light is wonderful. Photos my London friends take are always impressive. We don't have anything so old and impressive in the States, especially not on this coast.
I'm... I didn't realize that's what they were doing with the play, and it turns me off completely. Takarazuka plays are never considered in-canon so far as I know (the Sailormoon ones, I know, have absolutely fuck all to do with the show), but I don't like when people add characters for any reason. I don't know if that's better or worse than adding something with Mia or Franziska (or god forbid, Maya!).
Honestly, I love cheesy musicals but Takarazuka (and its fans) seems a bit too over-the-top even for me.
Thank you! The second one's the main quadrangle of my undergraduate college, which even in the crappiest, most miserable English weather would just blow me away with how lovely it was, every time I walked through - I'm really glad to have finally got some pics of it that do it justice.
Yeah, the storyline, as far as I can tell, seems to be something very close to 1-5, but adapted through a filter of 1-4 (and reframed as a romance) - Leona seems to have been conceived as Lana, plot-wise, but also as an echo of Edgeworth's relationship to Phoenix (childhood friend who ends up estranged from him, Phoenix wants to rescue her, etc.). That's just going from the recent post about it on gyakuten_saiban, though, definitely not first-hand info.
Adding characters like that's not something I like, either (especially when adding characters retcons existing canon), but tbh I don't feel as put off by it with you and shahni both saying that usually Takarazuka plays are conceived to stand at a distance from the canon they're based on - thinking of this as an
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(... oh god Clare, I like. JUST found your Crisis Core review E-mail in my inbox, kill me now. =_=)
The Takarazuka Revue production really doesn't worry me at all? For one, it's not canon, none of the productions by it are-- and even if it were, I'd regard Leona as one of the 'many loves of Phoenix Wright'. I mean, we don't forget Iris and it doesn't seem like they have much of anything-- especially since it seems they haven't ignored the importance of Edgeworth in it (And Takarazuka ARE known for their pseudo-shounen-ai hints. Elizabeth being an example, ohgodDeathdrool--) um.
Simply put, ahah, I'm still willing to watch it, as a fan of musicals, and as a fan of the series, and to just watch it as a fan production and nothing that affects my love of the canon anyway. It does look very visually stunning, so...
oh hai bb :DfanbeatsmanFebruary 9 2009, 16:39:28 UTC
Aha, don't worry about it ♥ It is just more evidence of my inability to shut up about anything ever :D
For one, it's not canon, none of the productions by it are
As I said to Liam, this is actually making me see it a bit differently. I think most of my real objections to it so far have come from the fact that I have been treating it as an adaptation, rather than as something inspired by the canon - or even, like you say, as a fan work. Which I'm thinking now isn't really appreciating it on its own terms.
Same with the romance stuff. My original response was like what (I think) sarahofcroydon said to me once about Maya porn - she said it's so nice (and so rare) that Maya's a female sidekick who's not sexualised, that it seems almost a shame to do it in fic. I've always liked that the AA games don't end up shoehorned into a het romance, so I was sort of put off by the fact that the musical had gone for a romantic plot. BUT, that again comes from thinking of it as an adaptation or interpretation of canon, rather than a new, separate take on it and
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I like the one of the fountain best :D Some great shots you got there!
Temeraire's been recommended to me by half a dozen different people - it sounds like you're enjoying it despite the despondent plotline. I suppose I'll get to it eventually. I lament the long list of books I want to read, and fool me keeps buying more without finishing the ones I've got! I really like the covers of the Temeraire novels so I'll probably buy them rather than getting them from the library.
Regarding the Takarazuka musical, I wrote a long spiel about it here on sarahofcroydon's LJ. Like you've said, the het storyline is a consequence of the Takarazuka influence. Likely there would be no het relationship to be seen if it'd been taken on by a conventional musical troupe, e.g. the ones doing the Prince of Tennis and Bleach musicals. But I think they probably would've taken even more liberties than the Tarakazuka have, i.e. a loose storyline as an excuse for a lot of goofy dances and horribly out-of-tune singing XD While it may be a bit more cheap and cheerful and in
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Hi, sorry for butting in, but happened to see this, and as one of those 'Tenimyu folks', I had to say something about your descriptions of 'mangled' and 'loose storyline as an excuse for a lot of goofy dances and horribly out-of-tune singing'. I've only seen the first Burimyu, so I won't comment on that (it was so long ago anyway, my only impression now is that I liked Renji, and Rukia sang well?). And I haven't seen the recent Tenimyu either (pretty much because I've stopped reading Tenipuri itself), but from what I've seen of the earlier musicals, I had enjoyed them a lot. I won't say there weren't goofy dances (XD they're part of the looo~ve imo, but that's probably where our preferences simply differ :P) but there was certainly storyline (I could generally understand what was happening, how the matches progressed, the twists and new moves, through my knowledge of the story, even without English subtitles) unless you are referring to the replacing of the roles of some of the girls
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That was a generalisation on my part regarding the loose storylines, for which I must apologise. I was referring more to the Lives with that particular comment, though the goofy dances and out of tune singing does apply to the vast majority. There were some good singers in Tenimyu, don't get me wrong - I have the Shirota and Kazuki Best of Actors album and it's awesome. And the 1st generation cast were passable as well, though there are plenty of lines on the OST that really make me cringe (Challenge being a good example, arrrgh, the guy playing Tezuka just couldn't get those higher notes *wince wince*). But the quality of the singing definitely doesn't match up to that of the Takarazuka. Takarazuka is classical, Tenimyu and Burimyu definitely ain't. And the dancing, well, let's not go there XD Like I say, I love the Teni and Burimyus in their own way, but I wouldn't wanna see PW get that kind of treatment. There isn't really that much in the way of musical theatre in Japan; the Teni, Buri and HunterxHunter myus are about all there is
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Oh, if you're talking about the dream lives, I totally agree about loose storylines, lol. (more like, 'storyline? what storyline?') I treat those more as concert performances than musicals. >> (And as much as I support 1st generation Seigaku, I'm there with you about the 1st gen Tezuka...) A big YES to Shirota and Kazuki being good. I remember thinking what luck to have them for the Tezuka-Atobe match. Especially when you think of the other Tezuka's...... *cough*
Hm-mm~ I never really tried watching a whole Takarazuka performance before, so I can't say much, though I'd certainly expect different styles in adapting a story to stage... (actually, with all the hype, I'm fairly curious about watching the PW one, if they ever have it out on DVD or something?) But, for me, I'd still be interested to see how a conventional myu would tackle PW anyway, cheesy or not. XD
Yeah, I thought that a romance plot was a staple of Takarazuka. There's Iris canonically, but she comes with a whole bunch of baggage and backstory that's way beyond the scope of a musical like this, I think. Not too bad -- and look at all the pseudo-femslash!
Genderswap meta is good. I saw a piece on metafandom that touched on genderswap in femslash (that there isn't much), and I'd like to see some more genderswap stuff. I keep thinking I'll write something for gyaku_meta, about video game fandom vs. other types, about favorite characters, loved beyond what the game sets up for you to feel about them, about PIE and why I like it (hint: not as an easy fix for an Edgeworth/Phoenix/Iris triangle)... Haven't been able to get my thoughts in order. I'd love to see your thoughts on genderswap in fic; I've been at a loss for some good meta!
I figured when I first heard that Takarazuka musicals usually had a romance plot that they'd go for Iris - but I do think you're right; you probably couldn't explain and contextualise Iris without the weight of the Fey plot to back it up, and trying to get 3-5 on stage generally would be one hell of an undertaking. 1-4 and 1-5 probably are the obvious cases to draw on and reinterpret, if that's what you're going for; they've got a lot of weight behind them, and there's a lot of emotional development for Phoenix, Edgeworth, and the defendants that you can work with, but they also stand apart quite well and have powerful dramatic trajectories in themselves. I suppose what would have been ideal in my mind would have been either a faithful adaptation or a standalone "missing case", rather than something that's half-integrated into the canon. But I think the more I read about it, the more I'm understanding what it is it's trying to do, and the more I'm open to it, in the end. And, er, the pseudo-femslash is helping very much indeed, oh yes
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I know just what you mean about genderswap. I don't really like the "wake up genderswapped" plots, either. I can understand them for porn's sake, or if a really good job is done with them, I suppose. I think there was a very well-liked Star Trek: TNG fic where Q turns Picard into a woman. My Fair Jeanne, I think. I prefer "always has been..." because, well, a lot more changes that way, and there's not much point in genderswap if there's no difference. But certain characters are more interesting in a genderswapped situation -- actually, the more they tend toward a typical masculine/feminine role, the more interesting they seem to me in a genderswap situation. Male!Iris? Female!Tigre? Or genderswapping a het pairing, particularly a canonical one, into a gay pairing -- because it changes a socially acceptable relationship into one that is less so, because it changes a character's personality/actions from acceptable for their gender to less acceptable
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Those are lovely photos. I like the first one, and the one with the bare trees, and for some reason, the snow on grass-mossy frost one. Did you guys make that snowman? Cute fella. :D (*as someone who lives in a country that doesn't get snow, thinks making snowmen is a wonderful thing~* XD;; )
I can't say I know much about Takarazuka either, though I've come across it before a couple of times in Japanese class, anime fan-ing and the news (there was this one time when they had a feature and interviewed some Takarazuka performers, perhaps a slow day XD). I think the performers themselves are cool, but don't think that I'll develop any deep interest in watching it otherwise. I still prefer my pretty boys? >>; And I haven't been reading much about the PW-Takarazuka news, but deliberately heterosexual sounds bad. D
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Thank you! I like the first one best, I think; I'm probably just especially pleased with it because it was taken through the bars of a gate and I never expected it to come out that well, haha. And no, the snowman's not ours, unfortunately (making snowmen is one of the few things that will persuade me to go out in the snow); we found it in the corner of the same quad the first photo's a picture of, which is the quad of the most competitive, insular, elite graduate college in Oxford. Guess the crusty old dons and Fellows who live and work there have more of a light-hearted side than it seems :D
The idea of Takarazuka does really appeal to me, from what little I do know, I think I'm just finding it hard to reconcile with the AA games in particular. I'm still pretty excited about it, though; the rehearsal footage they put up on youtube looked and sounded great, if nothing else (well, I can't really speak for what else it was, given that my Japanese is completely non-existent :D).
Like I said to miss_prince, genderswap's one of those things that
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Comments 21
I'm... I didn't realize that's what they were doing with the play, and it turns me off completely. Takarazuka plays are never considered in-canon so far as I know (the Sailormoon ones, I know, have absolutely fuck all to do with the show), but I don't like when people add characters for any reason. I don't know if that's better or worse than adding something with Mia or Franziska (or god forbid, Maya!).
Honestly, I love cheesy musicals but Takarazuka (and its fans) seems a bit too over-the-top even for me.
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Yeah, the storyline, as far as I can tell, seems to be something very close to 1-5, but adapted through a filter of 1-4 (and reframed as a romance) - Leona seems to have been conceived as Lana, plot-wise, but also as an echo of Edgeworth's relationship to Phoenix (childhood friend who ends up estranged from him, Phoenix wants to rescue her, etc.). That's just going from the recent post about it on gyakuten_saiban, though, definitely not first-hand info.
Adding characters like that's not something I like, either (especially when adding characters retcons existing canon), but tbh I don't feel as put off by it with you and shahni both saying that usually Takarazuka plays are conceived to stand at a distance from the canon they're based on - thinking of this as an ( ... )
Reply
The Takarazuka Revue production really doesn't worry me at all? For one, it's not canon, none of the productions by it are-- and even if it were, I'd regard Leona as one of the 'many loves of Phoenix Wright'. I mean, we don't forget Iris and it doesn't seem like they have much of anything-- especially since it seems they haven't ignored the importance of Edgeworth in it (And Takarazuka ARE known for their pseudo-shounen-ai hints. Elizabeth being an example, ohgodDeathdrool--) um.
Simply put, ahah, I'm still willing to watch it, as a fan of musicals, and as a fan of the series, and to just watch it as a fan production and nothing that affects my love of the canon anyway. It does look very visually stunning, so...
HI CLARE ILU. ♥
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For one, it's not canon, none of the productions by it are
As I said to Liam, this is actually making me see it a bit differently. I think most of my real objections to it so far have come from the fact that I have been treating it as an adaptation, rather than as something inspired by the canon - or even, like you say, as a fan work. Which I'm thinking now isn't really appreciating it on its own terms.
Same with the romance stuff. My original response was like what (I think) sarahofcroydon said to me once about Maya porn - she said it's so nice (and so rare) that Maya's a female sidekick who's not sexualised, that it seems almost a shame to do it in fic. I've always liked that the AA games don't end up shoehorned into a het romance, so I was sort of put off by the fact that the musical had gone for a romantic plot. BUT, that again comes from thinking of it as an adaptation or interpretation of canon, rather than a new, separate take on it and ( ... )
Reply
Temeraire's been recommended to me by half a dozen different people - it sounds like you're enjoying it despite the despondent plotline. I suppose I'll get to it eventually. I lament the long list of books I want to read, and fool me keeps buying more without finishing the ones I've got! I really like the covers of the Temeraire novels so I'll probably buy them rather than getting them from the library.
Regarding the Takarazuka musical, I wrote a long spiel about it here on sarahofcroydon's LJ. Like you've said, the het storyline is a consequence of the Takarazuka influence. Likely there would be no het relationship to be seen if it'd been taken on by a conventional musical troupe, e.g. the ones doing the Prince of Tennis and Bleach musicals. But I think they probably would've taken even more liberties than the Tarakazuka have, i.e. a loose storyline as an excuse for a lot of goofy dances and horribly out-of-tune singing XD While it may be a bit more cheap and cheerful and in ( ... )
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Hm-mm~ I never really tried watching a whole Takarazuka performance before, so I can't say much, though I'd certainly expect different styles in adapting a story to stage... (actually, with all the hype, I'm fairly curious about watching the PW one, if they ever have it out on DVD or something?) But, for me, I'd still be interested to see how a conventional myu would tackle PW anyway, cheesy or not. XD
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Genderswap meta is good. I saw a piece on metafandom that touched on genderswap in femslash (that there isn't much), and I'd like to see some more genderswap stuff. I keep thinking I'll write something for gyaku_meta, about video game fandom vs. other types, about favorite characters, loved beyond what the game sets up for you to feel about them, about PIE and why I like it (hint: not as an easy fix for an Edgeworth/Phoenix/Iris triangle)... Haven't been able to get my thoughts in order. I'd love to see your thoughts on genderswap in fic; I've been at a loss for some good meta!
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I can't say I know much about Takarazuka either, though I've come across it before a couple of times in Japanese class, anime fan-ing and the news (there was this one time when they had a feature and interviewed some Takarazuka performers, perhaps a slow day XD). I think the performers themselves are cool, but don't think that I'll develop any deep interest in watching it otherwise. I still prefer my pretty boys? >>; And I haven't been reading much about the PW-Takarazuka news, but deliberately heterosexual sounds bad. D ( ... )
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The idea of Takarazuka does really appeal to me, from what little I do know, I think I'm just finding it hard to reconcile with the AA games in particular. I'm still pretty excited about it, though; the rehearsal footage they put up on youtube looked and sounded great, if nothing else (well, I can't really speak for what else it was, given that my Japanese is completely non-existent :D).
Like I said to miss_prince, genderswap's one of those things that ( ... )
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