(Untitled)

[fabricdragon]

I am finally calm enough to post a bit more in this journal about the current mess in the Anglican communion.

Remembering that my father is an Episcopal Minister, and we have had our disputes with Dr. Rowan Williams , the Archbishop of Canterbury, before.... and are therefore prone to ranting in my family when his name comes up....I will attempt to

Comments

[fabricdragon]

yes, he said that.
he also said that citizens should be able to "choose" which legal system to involve themselves with.
and that is the death knell of a nation if it happens.

the rest of your argument is..... um.. completely unintelligable to me.

because we are a nation of immigrants someone instituting a separate legal code, or completely changing the legal code for one based on a minority religion is... ok?

as to the covenent marriage thing....
ummmm. that is a contract between two people, who both agreed to it. it therefore is disssolved according to the rules agreed on. that is a contract issue and would currently be actually MORE legal and possible in Btitain than here... you can already DO that in Britain, as stated...

what he is supggetsting is sperate treatment under the law because the Muslims do not happen to like British law.

oh, and the Muslim community has generally been screaming their heads off at him... they dont like the suggestion of seperate legal systems for Muslims in Britain either.....

[pedropadrao]

The point is not that the inhabitants of the UK are a block of people who've been there since time out of mind. The point is, at least in my eyes, that if I am Briton A, & she is Briton B, we are each to be judged under the same code of law, no matter what our faiths may be. The state ought to be disconnected from faith, if it is to treat each person equally.

precisely

[fabricdragon]

equality under the law is one of the few things that enables the weak and minorities a chance. the idea that there is ONE law, and all are subject to it from greater to lesser, and any religion.... while allowing enough leeway for things like mediation of disputes.. is what enables a culture of immigrants to survive.

[hugh_mannity]

Yep. Despite the problems that exist in the US, I'm very glad that I voted with my feet. I can't imagine living in London any more. It was bad enough when I last visited, a little over 5 years ago.

Damned shame really.

[tchipakkan]

It looks to me like another media generated tempest in a teapot. What it seems that Rowan Williams actually said was that it's inevitable that SOME PARTS of Sharia law are going to be integrated into British Law. Well, duh. British law, like American law is constantly being revised as the needs (demands?) of the population change. If you have more Islamic citizens, they're going to want their customs integrated. As one story put it, the Catholics shouldn't be able to enforce their views on abortion and divorce or homosexuality on the rest of the population. I very much doubt he was coming out in favor of the more extreme and savage parts of Sharia. Let's face it, there are some pretty stupid laws in just about any code. This seems to be another case where carefully quoting only a piece of what someone said makes their statement look awful. It's the press causing trouble again. NO ONE is immune to having what they said manipulated.

[fabricdragon]

i wish
i saw the taped interview before it was pulled down.....

one of the things he said is that having "one law for all citizens" wont work....
another thing he said was "citizens should be able to choose which law they want to operate under"

now, he MAY have been trying to say something more reasonable. he MAY have mis spoken.. but what he actually SAID was pretty bad.

given that under existing British law, "some parts" of Sharia already are being implemented (re my point about mediation) and etc. the fact that he would, in a recorded interview even IMPLY that different citizens should have different laws applied to them on the basis of religion??? in England? where this has HAPPENED before???

no, its not just media hype and distortion.

i sincerely hope he mis spoke... but it doesnt change the damage of what he SAID

[stardragonca]

My very British Victorian great grandmother would have told the Archbishop to shut up and listen while she explained why he was being a fool! With citations in Latin,Greek and Arabic.

[fabricdragon]

the man has entirely failed to impress my Episcopal minister dad..... or any of the people i know in the church... for years before this.

his lack of leadership has only worsened the strife in the Anglican communion, and now this??

the best i can say is that someone prone to this sort of public gaffe on religious and cultural needs should not be the spokesman and leader of the church..

but we said that when he wouldnt LEAD in any direction about the whole african bishops thing...

[sucrelefey]

When he defended atheists and agnostics from the Evangelicals 10 years ago he was well spoken and made sense. How quickly it slips away.

[mysryael]

My very World War 2 grandmother would have asked the Archbishop to tea and then gently explained to him why what he said was offensive to every reasoning person on either side of the religious division he is fomenting.

My grandfather wouldn't have been that kind.

[jennythe_reader]

NPR did a story on this last night on All Things Considered.

British Archbishop: Law Must Accommodate Muslims

[fabricdragon]

here's more from the man:

The latest controversy is the second time that Dr Williams's views on Islam have provoked dispute. In an interview last year with Emel, a Muslim lifestyle magazine, he accused the US of wielding its power in a way worse than Britain at the peak of the Empire, compared Muslims in Britain to the Good Samaritans, and praised the Muslim ritual of praying five times a day. He also said terrorists “can have serious moral goals” and argued that the 9/11 terrorists should not be called evil.

[gildedacorn]

"I can hear the cuckoo singing in the cuckoo-berry tree ..."