Shiny, new linguistic stuff

[erunyauve_e]

So! It turns out that the 17th issue of Parma Eldalamberon is complete but hasn't yet been announced or made available for purchase. According to Helge Fauskanger's post on the Elfling listserve, the issue is huge and contains a great deal of post-LOTR linguistic material, including new information on Khuzdûl. It's particularly concerned with

Comments

[tehta]

Hey, the Polish verb for dreaming works like that! Maybe we are descended from some (drunken, fatalistic yet aggressive) Elves.

[erunyauve_e]

Maybe we are descended from some (drunken, fatalistic yet aggressive) Elves.

According to the map, I would guess you have a few Mirkwood Elves in your history, though the fatalistic part sounds more Noldorin.

Hey, the Polish verb for dreaming works like that!

So, would you say, 'my dream' or 'the dream'? Thinking of some of the impersonal verbs in English, like 'appears' ('it appears to me'), the equivalent noun would be 'the appearance' rather than 'my appearance', which would mean something quite different.

[tehta]

We don't have articles, so it's just "dream". Although now that I think about it, when talking about contents of dreams we tend to use the verb: not "I had the weirdest dream--oh, what was in your dream?" but "something weird dreamed itself to me--oh, what dreamed itself to you?". I think the noun is more commonly used to mean "sleep", and hopes and daydreams are not within its range of meaning.

[erunyauve_e]

Although now that I think about it, when talking about contents of dreams we tend to use the verb: not "I had the weirdest dream--oh, what was in your dream?" but "something weird dreamed itself to me--oh, what dreamed itself to you?".

I finally went with the more complicated translation, though I think that in Quenya, from Tolkien's descripton, one could use 'dream' as a noun. However, from this explanation of the Polish use of 'it dreams', I think I've still created something nonsensical.

[ithilwen]

I discovered that the verb 'to dream' is impersonal in Quenya

Interesting. Perhaps Elves are convinced all their dreams are sent to them by Irmo?

[erunyauve_e]

Perhaps Elves are convinced all their dreams are sent to them by Irmo?

Or someone - didn't Ulmo send the dreams to Turgon and Finrod?

[ithilwen]

Yes, he did. Which makes you wonder, who else besides Ulmo and Irmo can send dreams. It certainly would have been a useful trick for Morgoth to exploit!