How 'historical' should historical writing be?

[eric_hinkle]

Was just over on the anti-Shurtugal LJ community and there was this fascinating bit about how inheritance worked on one Greek island. Basically the oldest son and daughter got everything while the rest of the kids were told, "Get used to being dirt-poor field hands." The oldest children apparently treated them about as well as you would expect,

Comments

[frost_wraith]

Never, never, never try to put in modern day cultural values into ANYTHING having to do with; A) History, B)Fantasy, C) Historical Fiction D) Sci-Fi (unless they are talking about modern society in past tense) This is how you get Captain Planet. Also, you are pointing out worlds and examples that have *never* been in human history. Don't look at values, and cultures for culture and value sake

[eric_hinkle]

Thanks for your input, it's been helpful.

[frost_wraith]

Let me rephrase the last completely incoherent sentence. What I'm saying is, what and how you write will show your views in the end without you trying to slip them in there. Just look at Lovecraft.

[ironbadger]

I find modern values and attitudes added to a historical or fantasy setting extremely jarring and inappropriate.

As much as anything else, its a gross display of cultural arrogance.

If a display of compassion can be put in place, and put into a meaningful context, then thats fine- but most fan, and even many pro writers I have read make little or no effort to build a believable case for what amounts to a "Braveheart moment" in the story.
(Character suddenly does a speech or yells the equivalent of "Freedom!" or performs some act where it is completely inappropriate or makes little or no sense.)

As for humans oppressing furries in stories?
Maybe I'm reading the wrong ones-but I usually see too many stories going the opposite direction.
IE- the humans killed off or turned into outlaws/slaves/boogeymen.

I would rather see them being there, portrayed as just another race/species with no particular stigma or advantages, but I never encounter this.

-Badger-

[eric_hinkle]

With humans: maybe we've just been reading different stories. I do remember that in that awful Historimorphs book was pretty solidly pounding on the 'Humans Are Bastards' drum hard enough to knock a hole in it (but that's only one problem in that collection). That and I seem to recall several Yarf stories that used humans as bascially orcs.

But yes on the criticism. I'll try and show humans who are better off/more respected in the Ardashir stories in the future.

And thanks for the comments about 'Braveheart' moments -- though again, I've been informed that the movie has a LOT of problems with accuracy.

[ironbadger]

Braveheart, despite claims to the contrary, is NOT a historical movie.

It gets a few things right- but the writer of the movie fictionalized around 90% of it.

And the "Freedom!"scream been so copied by endless other movies that its lost all meaning and become a joke.

I used to enjoy the movie, and sometimes still do- but the overuse of its key dramatic moment in other stories has kind of gotten to me.

-Badger-

[headnoises]

Depends on the story. Is it a HISTORICAL fiction, or a historical FICTION?

Where is it set, Historic Greece or Greek Playground?

My peeve: the thousands on thousands of "historically accurate" middle ages fantasies that have zero understanding of what little religion they show.

Whichever way a story goes, it has to make sense. If EVERY couple only has two children, the population can't grow; if your characters spend the last fifty years helping the world constantly, and about one in ten people are a member of your character's group, the entire world will not try to do you harm as a matter of course. *glares at Marvel*

Basically, I don't find one better-- you just have to pick one. If EVERYTHING is as true to life as you can get, you can't just chuck in your pet peeve without weaving it in. If the story is a Robert Asprin MYTH-type story, you can't suddenly go all photo-realistic.

Me, if you don't signal that the story is going to be all about telling the story you want, I get peevish about violation of established reality.

[eric_hinkle]

My heroic fantasy fiction is usually about as 'historic' as Robert E. Howard's Hyboria -- I try to keep it like a certain period in real history, though I'm more interested in catching the 'feel'.

For instance, in the Ardashir stories, I have several different historical events happening within the same period of time (Sassanid Persia's battles between the orthodox faith and the Mazdakite radicals; Central Asia squeezed between Persian, Chinese, and Tibetan empires; and the Turkish invasions, all of which happened at different times in real life).

And I agree with the crticism of Marvel. 'Kill the muties/anti-mutant waaaangst' got tired 20 years ago.

[headnoises]

Ah, then you just need to be consistent.