Comics wank, must be... a day ending in y

[eowyn_315]

So, angearia, who has once again been a VERY BAD GIRL over at Whedonesque, linked to this thread about the Dark Horse "announcement" that they are maybe acquiring the rights to the Angel series or something. As usual, there is wild speculation about it, all of which is pretty ridiculous, given that we have zero details about what it means or even what

Comments

[shipperx]

I agree with both of those things.

Yeah. Pretty much. It would take more time and space than Season 8 can allow/afford to explain all of that. On the other hand Angel is incomprehensible without it. Catch-22. Plus there's the part where revealing all of that would also reveal how very little Buffy knows of Angel any more which would be a downer given their great 'epic' universe-fated 'wuv' that's worth the destruction of lives and worlds. [insert non-existent eyerolling icon here]

[eowyn_315]

Plus there's the part where revealing all of that would also reveal how very little Buffy knows of Angel any more which would be a downer given their great 'epic' universe-fated 'wuv' that's worth the destruction of lives and worlds.

Yeah, I think that's also part of it - the Bangel relationship doesn't really fit the story Joss wanted to tell, so they just ignored that bit. Much like Willow being insecure about using magic and afraid of going dark again didn't fit the story they wanted to tell in Angel S4, so we end up with Willow the super-witch instead.

[shipperx]

Or that Angel's entire world had imploded with losing Connor and Cordy essentially dying when he made the trip to Sunnydale in "End of Days."

[eowyn_315]

That one I never understood, because it's not like they couldn't have made it make sense. I mean, obviously, you can't do a "Willow restores Angel's soul and has an epic magic battle with Evil Cordy" episode without Willow being confident about her magic, so there's an inherent conflict there.

But how hard would it have been to write Angel as pretty depressed, and when Buffy asks what's wrong, he just says he doesn't want to talk about it? He can still get jealous of Spike, but be less flirty about it, you know? NOT THAT HARD.

[rahirah]

Honestly, I think that S8 would have been infinitely better if we'd known who Twilight was early on. The suspense would have been in characters like Giles trying to find out if there was any way to prevent the prophecy, and Buffy torn between her own mission with the Slayers and the desire for the paradise Twangel promised. While on the other side we could have had Angel convinced he was doing the right thing, and trying to minimize losses as he played all these factions against one another. That could have been awesome.

Perhaps licensing concerns would have prevented that, but I find it hard to imagine that if Joss had let the IDW people in on it from the beginning, they wouldn't have wanted to play ball in order to get the Joss stamp of approval.

[shipperx]

But that would have taken planning and stuff! (Which doesn't seem to be the strong suit of anyone involved.)

[eowyn_315]

Well, it certainly couldn't have been any worse. :) I do think a big problem was that they built up Twilight as the Big Bad, which makes it really hard to reverse it in the span of three issues and convince people Angel was actually trying to do the right thing.

[agnes_bean]

I haven't actually been reading the comics, but I've been keeping up enough to know that I agree with you (plus, I agree in general based on the TV-canon crossovers).

The Connor thing is especially important. Like, okay, ignore the fact that Angel has all these other friends and earthly attachments. That's super lame, and bad characterization, obviously, but I could almost live with it. But he has a fucking son. You just...can't ignore that. Parenthood means a big shift in priorities for most people, and Angel is definitely one of them. Does he mention that he has a child at ALL in the comics? Even if not by name? If not...yeah. If it is impossible to work the plot you want with the characters you have, you need to either come up with new characters, or a new plot

[eowyn_315]

Does he mention that he has a child at ALL in the comics? Even if not by name?

Nope, not at all. Of course, any mention of it would require, at the very least, an explanation of how a vampire could have a baby in the first place (and presumably with whom, and I'm sure THAT would go over well, lol). And I can definitely see how that would stop the narrative in its tracks, since everyone (except Willow and Faith) would be like, "WHAT?"

He just gave up his son. There is no way that he cares as much about is potential future with Buffy as he seemed to, at least not at that moment. I can't believe he'd have the mental energy. I can try to fanwank it as an emotional defensive mechanism, but that doesn't sit well with me at all, given that Angel is normally broody mcbroody face.

Word.

Yes, these shows were in the same verseHonestly, at this point, I hesitate to say even that much. They started in the same verse, sure, but how can you possibly explain the sun being blacked out in Los Angeles and no one in Sunnydale noticing? How can

[agnes_bean]

Honestly, at this point, I hesitate to say even that much.

Lol, all of your points are completely fair. I really just kind of close my eyes and handwave all of that stuff because, of course, you're right (and I was really bothered by the Jasmine plot-line for that reason). But at the same time, they can't really NOT be the same verse, since there is crossover, and ugh. Maybe Angel!LA is actually a slightly different dimension, and all the highways in are portals that anyone can travel through, and nobody notices?

I have to admit, it cracks me up that you used this as your example, because when I started watching Torchwood, one of my first complaints was that Jack was completely different from when he was on Doctor Who.

At least they have an in-universe explanation for that, though -- his being burned by the Doctor, and then the hundred or so years he lived before Torchwood started. Definitely an adjustment, but as a viewer I feel like, I at least have a sense of WHY he acts so differently. Whereas with the Buffy/Angel

[eowyn_315]

Here's my theory: at some point, all the magic and altering of realities broke the universe into two different dimensions - both dimensions have all the same people, but events do not quite line up. Thus, when we're watching Buffy, we're watching one version of events, in which the Angel characters exist, but events did not happen exactly as we saw on Angel.

When we watch Angel, we're watching a different version of events, in which the Buffy characters exist, but again, not quite as we saw them on Buffy.

Definitely an adjustment, but as a viewer I feel like, I at least have a sense of WHY he acts so differently.

True. I think my reaction had more to do with the fact that I didn't like New Jack, and missed the one I loved on Who, but it didn't help that it took quite a while to figure out why he's so different.

[xlivvielockex]

I wish I could contribute more than just nodding my head and going 'word' to everything you said here and in the comments. I always joke that whenever Angel shows up in Buffy's world, he is Angelbot, because any characterization and development he had on his own shows just goes right out the window. It's like he is back to BTVS S3 Angel.

And I'm so with you on the whole WTFery of Willow in Angel S4. I mean, what? WHAT?!

I just still cannot for the life of me understand HOW this writers, being parents themselves, can completely negate Angel's development in regards to Connor. That he would willingly want the world and his own son destroyed. And for what?

[eowyn_315]

IDEK!!! Maybe this is all part of Joss' daddy issues. Angel was the only character left who was a decent father, so he's gotta go destroying the world without regard for his son in order to keep in line with Joss' ideas about fathers.

[xlivvielockex]

And once again, Joss allows his issues to interfere with good characterization. Pretty darn sad. Pretty. darn. sad.

[mikeda]

I think all the explanation needed was in Angel's vision near the end of Angel: After the Fall.

Angel in an apocalyptic scene. Leading an army of demons with dead bodies all around.

His future. His worst nightmare.

He goes looking for an alternative and he finds Twilight. Or it finds him. And he WANTS to believe he's doing the right thing because he doesn't want his vision to happen.

[rebcake]

Yanno, I totally 100% agree with this, and I don't even really care about Angel, the character. However, I thought about my friends, and how we deal with years of separation, and how sometimes there is enough of a bond, that just picking up the phone every so often does the trick. Would it be so hard to have a scene showing Buffy hanging up the phone and saying, "Wow. I thought I had a lot going on." We wouldn't need a ton of exposition, and it would be sort like all those summers, where we don't know specifically what happened, but we can safely assume that the characters do. It's even better, because if we want the backstory, we don't have to write it ourselves, but can just skip over to the DVD collection.

As it stands, we have to assume that nobody knows anything, and it's just stupid.

[eowyn_315]

Would it be so hard to have a scene showing Buffy hanging up the phone and saying, "Wow. I thought I had a lot going on."

Yeah, really. And as was mentioned above, the fact that they didn't do this only serves to emphasize how detached Buffy and Angel are now, how little they understand each other, which makes the Twuffy coupling so much more bizarre.