Public, Written

[emptyyourself]

I had half a mind to begin this with some sort of prologue to explain why it is I’ve decided to waste my expend time and effort in writing this for the slack-jawed rabble all and sundry to see, but the truth of the matter is likely far more mundane than would be expected for a sizable rant regarding the nuances of idealism. Boredom, for example

Comments

[emptyyourself]

That may well be the most you've ever said to me outside of a professional capacity. Careful, Sergeant. One might think we're having a conversation. An amicable one, no less.

I thought I understood the drive to kill for that which we believe in, but to be entirely frank, when confronted with the reality of it, I faltered on the threshold. I can kill. I have killed. It's a sorry sort of murderer, really, who kills not for his own ideals, but for those of someone else.

I once thought -

I once thought it important. The willingness to die for an ideal, that is. I've done it, actually. Died for an ideal. I can't help but look back upon it and think it a pointless death to a similarly pointless existence. Lately, I'm finding it far better to live for what I believe in. I suppose we've something else in common.

As for the rest, loyalty isn't a matter of going to all lengths to protect those we love, but rather of remaining loyal to them in spite of the necessity of doing what is right. You needn't apologise for valuing your ethics.

[emptyyourself]

I believe I'll set aside, for the moment, the first few points you've made about your death. They raise questions I don't want to be the one ask. I'm not the proper person to ask those questions of you.

I will say, however, that my own death benefited no one - not even the one who killed me. What was accomplished through it would just as well have been done if my murderer had knocked me unconscious. The people for whom I died didn't require it of me, as the majority of them were beyond caring. My true motivations and loyalties were made known, but who does that serve? I'm dead.

It was not a situation in which I was able to say, "I would rather die than..." Dying was an error, in my case.

As for that last, I may well have spent the better part of my life admitting I was wrong. It isn't the admission of it, but rather the ability to move on from your mistake which makes it count. I've never been terribly good at letting things go.

[thegooddrjones]

But they were delicious biscuits.

[Private]

What bought this on, love?

Private

[emptyyourself]

It wasn't an accusation. Your existence is hardly pointless.

You've told me I should talk. I'm talking.

Private

[thegooddrjones]

I see that, love. It wasn't an accusation, just was wondering.

Private

[emptyyourself]

After the fact, I realized it might appear I consider you to be wasting your time. I don't, and felt the need to clarify.

As I said, I'm talking.

text

[lifeafterhope]

Religion, money, politics, solidarity, intelligence, revenge, power, control, supremacy... ask ten different people from my world and you'll probably get ten different answers.

Half of them will be ready to kill for whichever it is without being asked, and half of those to die.

Written

[emptyyourself]

It's a wonder so few are willing to live for their ideals.

Re: Written

[lifeafterhope]

Sometimes death becomes the better choice.

Written

[emptyyourself]

If you've decided it's better to die for your beliefs than live for them, your death has no value. Or, at the outset, your beliefs cease to have value once you've passed on. Who remains to fight for them, after all?

[with_discipline]

[She's actually quite impressed with this whole thing, but saying that seems...unnecessary, so she'll home in on that question, though she doubts it was anything more than a way of proving his point.]

On Vulcan, we hold to tradition and ethics, and a sense of discovery. Loyalty is to family, government, and our history.

Admittedly, though I find human ideals emotional, I also find them...admirable.

[emptyyourself]

You've a step ahead of me if you find any of this "admirable", T'Pol.

[with_discipline]

Loyalty is important, but not admirable?

[emptyyourself]

Dying for a cause isn't admirable. I can't imagine the loyalty of a corpse has any value.

[majorum_pride]

What kind of loyalty?

Brutus was loyal to Rome above Caesar. At least in Shakespeare's rendition of the events- which I suspect are not particularly dependent on historical accuracy -he said that he had no intention of demeaning Caesar with his acts. That he was actually doing him a favor, and stopping him from becoming someone worse. That his murder was likened to a godly sacrifice to protect a man as he knew him, rather than butchering an animal.

Surprisingly, he feared Caesar's ambition, of all things.

[Private]

Thank you, though. That's the first time I've heard ambition referred to without contempt in quite a while. [Especially from a non-Nietzschean, and it's been a while since he's talked to a Nietzschean that hasn't been corrupted by greed.]

[emptyyourself]

It always struck me as an attempt to excuse his actions by labeling his victim with a undesirable personality trait.

'I killed him, but Caesar was ambitious. He was asking for it.'

Then again, I have a personal bias in favour of ambition, rather than toward either Brutus or Caesar.

[Private]

You're welcome, I suppose. I can't imagine why you've decided to conduct this portion of the conversation in private, however.

[Private]

[majorum_pride]

Because ambition has become a word of caution.

I died for my ideals, so the observations seemed oddly relevant. What I knew as a close friend left here still insulting me and thinking me a traitor, even though I actually died for him and people like him.

So I was curious. And I'm talking, too, I suppose.

[Private]

[emptyyourself]

I've been in that position. Once or twice. One of our colleagues attempted to kill me upon his arrival here, under the same set of circumstances.