Oh, that's definitely one thing that bothered me immensely - that court scene! Not only that Morgana was once again completely ineffectual at influencing Uther, but then she got semi hysterical and was led off by Gaius of all people! GAIUS.
How is this not an intentional effort by the writers to paint her as unstable? One of the main reasons I dread Morgana going 'evil' is that I fully believe that even when she does, she will never be able to succeed at anything she sets out to do because she'll always be driven by self-interest and emotion. She won't ever be given any REAL agency or be able to fully exercise her power, or use it wisely. And she'll go up against Merlin and lose every time. And basically, spare me.
I loved Gwen so, so much and I loved Morgana as well in the beginning of the episode and at the end, with her badassery and plotting and the Gwen/Morgana-ness of it all. But the messages being sent about women and power are so troubling.
Gah, I think I didn't want to remember that Gaius led her away. :(
Yes, the vibes of the woman who wants change shown as emotional, hysterical, unstable and lacking real agency is really bothering. This show is pretty shitty at handling it's villains already, and that doesn't bode well for Morgana, and as you say I'd rather not see it.
I really wish there was more badassery and less skeevy ideas about power. Seeing the politics in Merlin does feel like banging your head against the wall a bit.
Yeah, well, but remember Moment of Truth? Gwen handled a sword rather awesomely there, I'd say. And Morgana left her the sword when she escaped in this episode, and judging by the scream we heard I'd say Gwen almost took a bandit's legs of with it.
But the show didn't have Arthur going half-hysterical with emotion over Merlin, having Gaius lead him away and treat it as completely normal. That's what it did with Morgana. I think my real trouble with that scene isn't that Morgana isn't able to convince Uther, it's the way she tries to. She comes of as emotional and unstable in a way I find troubling as it's a setting where she's supposed to hold some power.
Maybe I was unclear - I didn't mean to say that it's necessarily a bad thing showing women using persuasion as their only means of power. It's realistic in a lot of settings and I'm well aware of that. But there are and have always been exceptions! Female warriers, powerful queens, women who take charge, and I don't think writing historical is an excuse to not give any of the women
( ... )
Yes Gwen can handle a sword when she needs to, but I still think as a character, it is more natural that she would fall in behind Arthur who is her superior, whereas Morgana probably wouldn't.
No, but Arthur didn't have the relationship with Merlin that Morgana has with Gwen, they'd only known each other a few months at most when Gwen and Morgana have been friends for years. Also Arthur is the master of repression especially around his father, where Morgana has been much more commonly depicted as emotional and in this situation she was distraught at the idea of Gwen dying for her and that no-one would help. I at least think it's in-character.
The magic thing is an interesting point, have we yet seen anyone other than Merlin that is a 'good' sorceror, except possibly Morgana and the druids? (Who aren't evil yet, though canonically it will go that way) My memory is sometimes faulty so correct me if I'm wrong lol.
If they'd given us a reason I could've been okay with it, but without it? No way.
Heather pointed out that Gaius leads her off at the end of that scene, and it really bothers me. I'm afraid they're keeping at painting Morgana as unstable and easily hysterical, and if she's going evil that way I really don't want to see it.
Why shouldn't Morgana go after Gwen when Arthur goes? Why shouldn't Gwen fight when there are boys with swords? Please show, turn off the damsel in distress-default setting.
This. So much this. Morgana should have been going out to save Gwen before Arthur had his boots on. And Arthur KNOWS Gwen can handle herself with a sword, he's seen it first hand, so there's no excuse for him not giving her a sword at the end there too. I hate that after that awesome opening, Gwen just had to spend the rest of the episode waiting to be rescued by the boys. Who were ultimately both too caught up in their own emo to do right by her.
Everything about the gender issues, as well as the gay "subtext", in this episode just upset me so much. :(
Yes! I loved the opening of this episode, and then things started bothering me. The more I think about it the more it bothers me. Ack, Merlin does better when I don't see beyond the shiny.
That they do manage to do really excellent stuff with Gwen and Morgana sometimes just makes the gender issues all that much more bothering. It could be so great, and then it goes and falls into old traps.
Yes, exactly! If they didn't have stuff like 1x03 or Ealdor or even the beginning of this episode, I would - well, I still wouldn't like it, because I never like it when the women are sidelined and not allowed to do anything fun, but my expectations would be much lower, you know?
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How is this not an intentional effort by the writers to paint her as unstable? One of the main reasons I dread Morgana going 'evil' is that I fully believe that even when she does, she will never be able to succeed at anything she sets out to do because she'll always be driven by self-interest and emotion. She won't ever be given any REAL agency or be able to fully exercise her power, or use it wisely. And she'll go up against Merlin and lose every time. And basically, spare me.
I loved Gwen so, so much and I loved Morgana as well in the beginning of the episode and at the end, with her badassery and plotting and the Gwen/Morgana-ness of it all. But the messages being sent about women and power are so troubling.
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Yes, the vibes of the woman who wants change shown as emotional, hysterical, unstable and lacking real agency is really bothering. This show is pretty shitty at handling it's villains already, and that doesn't bode well for Morgana, and as you say I'd rather not see it.
I really wish there was more badassery and less skeevy ideas about power. Seeing the politics in Merlin does feel like banging your head against the wall a bit.
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But the show didn't have Arthur going half-hysterical with emotion over Merlin, having Gaius lead him away and treat it as completely normal. That's what it did with Morgana. I think my real trouble with that scene isn't that Morgana isn't able to convince Uther, it's the way she tries to. She comes of as emotional and unstable in a way I find troubling as it's a setting where she's supposed to hold some power.
Maybe I was unclear - I didn't mean to say that it's necessarily a bad thing showing women using persuasion as their only means of power. It's realistic in a lot of settings and I'm well aware of that. But there are and have always been exceptions! Female warriers, powerful queens, women who take charge, and I don't think writing historical is an excuse to not give any of the women ( ... )
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No, but Arthur didn't have the relationship with Merlin that Morgana has with Gwen, they'd only known each other a few months at most when Gwen and Morgana have been friends for years. Also Arthur is the master of repression especially around his father, where Morgana has been much more commonly depicted as emotional and in this situation she was distraught at the idea of Gwen dying for her and that no-one would help. I at least think it's in-character.
The magic thing is an interesting point, have we yet seen anyone other than Merlin that is a 'good' sorceror, except possibly Morgana and the druids? (Who aren't evil yet, though canonically it will go that way) My memory is sometimes faulty so correct me if I'm wrong lol.
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Heather pointed out that Gaius leads her off at the end of that scene, and it really bothers me. I'm afraid they're keeping at painting Morgana as unstable and easily hysterical, and if she's going evil that way I really don't want to see it.
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This. So much this. Morgana should have been going out to save Gwen before Arthur had his boots on. And Arthur KNOWS Gwen can handle herself with a sword, he's seen it first hand, so there's no excuse for him not giving her a sword at the end there too. I hate that after that awesome opening, Gwen just had to spend the rest of the episode waiting to be rescued by the boys. Who were ultimately both too caught up in their own emo to do right by her.
Everything about the gender issues, as well as the gay "subtext", in this episode just upset me so much. :(
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I loved the opening of this episode, and then things started bothering me. The more I think about it the more it bothers me. Ack, Merlin does better when I don't see beyond the shiny.
That they do manage to do really excellent stuff with Gwen and Morgana sometimes just makes the gender issues all that much more bothering. It could be so great, and then it goes and falls into old traps.
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