The Girl Who Did Not Know Shame

[ellen_kushner]

After reading an article in today's NYTimes about Ann Leary, Delia has determined what she has long suspected:  I don't really know what shame is.

I can do fear.  And guilt. And I can certainly feel ashamed about an action I have performed that was ignoble.  But that giant surge of ontological shame - which prompts some people to apologize for

Comments

[kathleenfoucart]

I feel the same way about "guilty pleasures"-- whenever someone asks about my favorite "guilty pleasure books" I never know quite what to say! I like them, so why should I feel guilty about reading them? o_O

[mizkit]

I'm pretty much right there with you. It occasionally embarrasses my husband. :)

[gows]

Yet another reason we get along so well. :D

Irish shame

[paddymeboy]

Let's not just blame the Protestants, Ann Leary is a good Irish-American Catholic. I believe Irish-American shame is usually referred to as Low Self-Esteem. Although in some family reunions of mine there are some belittlers and other belittleds, if there is no one to belittle us in my family we happily engage in competitive rituals of self-shaming that I like to call "one-downmanship."

Curiously, although I am practically a shaman of shame --if you can ferret it out in others like a shame detective, that would make you a shamus of shame-- I also don't believe in guilty pleasures, and that if I like something then it's good. But I will tell you in meticulous detail why the thing I think is good is good, and why although it resembles things that other people and I acknowledge are bad, that the thing I like is really really different from the good things.

Sorry if I've gone on too long about this...sorry I apologized... sorry I apologized for apologizing...

Re: Irish shame

[deliasherman]

Point taken. There's also the fact that the grass always tends to look greener in the other fellow's yard. When I was growing up, I was always aware that there was basically nothing I could do to redeem my sinful self except throw myself on the mercy of the court. I was jealous of my Catholic friends, who at least got penances to do and felt better afterwards. But shame is the most inward and private of emotions, and I expect we all experience it a little differently.

[gaedhal]

It is an Irish Catholic thing.

Trust me.

You are born wrong and nothing will ever fix it.

[llennhoff]

This reminds me of a classic moment it Get Smart:

Max: I don't know the meaning of the word fear.
Seigfreid: Shtarker - kill him!
Max: Fear - a feeling of uneasiness.

[kateelliott]