a very limited defense of Anakin Skywalker

[elizabeth_hoot]

In my head, this post has always been the natural follow up to my Death Star rant, aka “why Luke was totally justified in blowing up the Death Star and certainly not a mass murderer.” Actually I'm not sure they have anything to do with each other, but anyway.

Comments

[treenahasthaal]

I agree with you on the Alderaan aspect of the arguement. I have never seen Anakin/Vader totally guilty of that crime. I do, however, feel that he was complicit in the act. For all we know the Emperor may have been all for it, so Vader had little choice in the matter except out and out disobedience and we now that at that point there was no way that was going to happen

[elizabeth_hoot]

Re: Alderaan - I suppose it's that I don't seem as particularly guilty at all for it. I think he's morally complicit in the Empire's crimes in general, and especially those he's present for, but ... no more than any of the other higher-ups. And in this case less, because he does seem to have openly opposed it, and I'm not sure what more, short of treason, can reasonably be expected of him.

Re: Owen and Beru - yeah, I don't buy any of the EU: as canon, anyway. I mean, their interpretations are perfectly valid and it's great if it works for you or anyone else; there are things in it I've enjoyed myself. But I don't feel obliged to adopt anyone else's interpretations as my own - not even George Lucas', much less those of a bunch of third parties who had nothing to do with the creation of the movies anyway. (Especially when those third parties come up with ideas like mofferences, and Anakin's sacrifice not balancing the Force or even defeating the Emperor, and Luke and Leia's births being, alas, so different that their love can never be

[wyncatastrophe]

I have been shouting these things at anyone who would listen, with growing exasperation, for years now - all to no effect! But you say it all so much better and more cleverly than I ever did or would, that I have high hopes your logic will convince other naysayers to pay attention to the damn scenes instead of just the opening crawls that describe him as "the evil Lord Darth Vader".

I would also suggest these further things:

Count Dooku and the Separatists were executed, not murdered, on the orders of the military's commander-in-chief (Palpatine). Does that make it right? Hell no. But murders are generally construed as unlawful killings, which these were not. In some ways, ditto the Rebel captain, although that was on Vader's own initiative - under our own rules of warfare, military activists masquerading as civilians (see "if this is a consular ship, where is the ambassador?" and "you weren't on any mercy mission") are not entitled to the same rights as POWs. These were, in fact, "Rebel spies" - and what do you do with

[girlofavalon]

I have been shouting these things at anyone who would listen, with growing exasperation, for years now - all to no effect!

That makes two of us. Okay, maybe replace "for years" with "for a couple of years". That's kinda frustrating.

[wyncatastrophe]

Hey, "a couple of years" is still years, plural …

It is kind of frustrating. Kakkik and I have come to the conclusion that the only way you can effectively brand Vader a war criminal is to read the opening crawls and then ignore everything that happens in the movies. I'd also like to point out that in ROTS? He takes sides in a civil war, against a coup by a militant group full of his friends, in favor of the Republic's duly elected head of state (not that he stays duly elected for long), and proceeds to kill a lot of Jedi who have been proclaimed enemies of the state. Tragic? Yes. But we know from TCW that not even Padawans are non-combatants; Younglings, like the clone cadets, are brainwashed, living weapons. Palpatine wasn't logically wrong when he said that Vader would have to destroy them all or it would be "civil war without end" - although, yeah, probably the most effective argument he could possibly have made to Anakin, who has just spent three years in the horror of civil war.

I'm ranting now. Oops. Sorry, elizabeth_hoot! Didn't

[ladyhadhafang]

Can I quote you on that? Seriously, that's unbelievably awesome.

[ladyhadhafang]

This. Just...all of it.

[elizabeth_hoot]

Thanks! :)

[mlledefer]

Well argued and now, next time I see someone in doubt, I'll send him/her to this post.

Thank you!:))

[elizabeth_hoot]

Ha, awesome. You're welcome, of course!