The John and Rodney scene won the night for me. Also, for an episode dealing with John's backstory and ex-wife, this was surprisingly...reinforcing the gay. Dave totally thinks Ronon is John's boyfriend and John does nothing to correct the assumption. And then then Nancy? So awkward together upon seeing each other again and the line, THE LINE. John's dad thought Nancy was the best thing to happen to John, but John made no such statement of his own to agree with that idea. I love the way they handled John's backstory because it's so open that it's very likely that everyone in the Sheppard family knows John's gay. His dad disowned him for it, his brother discounts him for it, and his wife left him for it.
I've seen someone comment to the effect that for an episode that was 25% dealing with a straight marriage, this episode was surprisingly not cutting the gay subtext at all.
And Dave totally did think Ronon was John's boyfriend. I don't think John caught that, though. He was too busy being nervous, grieving and bashful.
I disagree about his family, though. I don't think he was disowned -- if he was, his dad wouldn't have wanted to still see him and his brother wouldn't have been upset that John was never around. I think John cut ties. And if John has an interest in guys, I think they knew that and were thus disapproving of his career choice on that front; not only was he abandoning family responsibilities and giving up the things that made him A Sheppard, he was perforce lying about himself. Except he married a woman, so maybe he thought it wouldn't come up. (Yes, I think John's bi rather than gay, if he's not straight. But then, when I was in high school, these guys were on the student council -- I am not kidding -- so I am less
( ... )
Well, yeah, I know John cut ties. I was just following up on the mention Dave made.
DAVE: If I've got the wrong impression of you, it's not my fault. You're the one who left, remember? I stayed. I looked after Dad; I ran the business while you're off doing God knows what.
SHEPPARD: I'm assuming that's what Dad wanted.
DAVE: No. No, it's not, John. Dad regretted what happened between you two right up to the end.
Something happen and they had a falling out, which made John leave. Maybe it was the decision over military choices, maybe it was the divorce, maybe it was John going against the hetero-normative. Whatever it was, it was enough to make him leave.
My point was that it didn't seem to me that John was "disowned" or that Nancy left John over anything to do with sex (except perhaps how he wasn't around enough for her to have any). I agree his backstory is pretty open, but that in particular is something I'm not seeing. YMMV.
And I'm pretty sure Dave is John's big brother. To me, he looked older, but also in the scene where John is saying how wakes are basically a bunch of people talking to each other without knowing what to say, Ronon looks over at Dave and observes "your big brother" seems to be handling it. He kinda mumbled but I'm pretty sure that's what he said :)
Thanks! (And also, thank you for more-or-less informing me that sga_newsletter exists! Cool!)
I think Dave is probably older, especially with how John was acting, but like I said, I couldn't tell from looking at him. (Possibly because I was boggling at how he doesn't look like John at all, to me.)
Did he say "big brother"? I just heard "brother". Well, I guess I have a good excuse to rewatch it. ;) I'd love to have it confirmed one way or another.
also here from sga_newsletterverdande_miFebruary 4 2008, 01:53:56 UTC
I think you're right about Rodney not getting John on some level, I hadn't thought of it like that before, but it makes sense. That Rodney asked for leave was really amazing, and I loved how John didn't question that or Ronon joining him later.
Ronon is this episode was just amazing, he really does know how to take care of his team-members, and I liked your thoughts about him and his people and history. That was very well said.
I see Dave as being older than John, but what do I know...
Re: also here from sga_newslettereliyesFebruary 4 2008, 15:09:13 UTC
Rodney doesn't really have a reason to learn to more-or-less manipulate (not in a bad way, I hasten to add) John. Although I suppose you could consider the way John stops to listen whenever Rodney makes the effort to apologize (which is *gasp!* talking about feelings) and generally forgives him. But I don't think it's at all deliberate... At this point, I'm just rambling.
Thank you. I've really been enjoying Ronon's development in this season, really.
As for what you know, probably more than me! Especially if Ronon said big brother, as dayse mentioned.
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And Dave totally did think Ronon was John's boyfriend. I don't think John caught that, though. He was too busy being nervous, grieving and bashful.
I disagree about his family, though. I don't think he was disowned -- if he was, his dad wouldn't have wanted to still see him and his brother wouldn't have been upset that John was never around. I think John cut ties. And if John has an interest in guys, I think they knew that and were thus disapproving of his career choice on that front; not only was he abandoning family responsibilities and giving up the things that made him A Sheppard, he was perforce lying about himself. Except he married a woman, so maybe he thought it wouldn't come up. (Yes, I think John's bi rather than gay, if he's not straight. But then, when I was in high school, these guys were on the student council -- I am not kidding -- so I am less ( ... )
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Well, yeah, I know John cut ties. I was just following up on the mention Dave made.
DAVE: If I've got the wrong impression of you, it's not my fault. You're the one who left, remember? I stayed. I looked after Dad; I ran the business while you're off doing God knows what.
SHEPPARD: I'm assuming that's what Dad wanted.
DAVE: No. No, it's not, John. Dad regretted what happened between you two right up to the end.
Something happen and they had a falling out, which made John leave. Maybe it was the decision over military choices, maybe it was the divorce, maybe it was John going against the hetero-normative. Whatever it was, it was enough to make him leave.
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And I'm pretty sure Dave is John's big brother. To me, he looked older, but also in the scene where John is saying how wakes are basically a bunch of people talking to each other without knowing what to say, Ronon looks over at Dave and observes "your big brother" seems to be handling it. He kinda mumbled but I'm pretty sure that's what he said :)
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I think Dave is probably older, especially with how John was acting, but like I said, I couldn't tell from looking at him. (Possibly because I was boggling at how he doesn't look like John at all, to me.)
Did he say "big brother"? I just heard "brother". Well, I guess I have a good excuse to rewatch it. ;) I'd love to have it confirmed one way or another.
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Ronon is this episode was just amazing, he really does know how to take care of his team-members, and I liked your thoughts about him and his people and history. That was very well said.
I see Dave as being older than John, but what do I know...
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Thank you. I've really been enjoying Ronon's development in this season, really.
As for what you know, probably more than me! Especially if Ronon said big brother, as dayse mentioned.
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