Self-Indulgent Worship

Aug 29, 2007 08:53

"The heart of the battle over worship is this: our worship practices are separated from our call to justice and, worse, foster the self-indulgent tendencies of our culture rather than nurturing the self-sacrificing life of the kingdom of God."

"The fallout of false worship distorts our sense of God, ourselves and others, leading to injustice and ( Read more... )

justice, worship, issues, christianity

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camillofan August 29 2007, 17:12:08 UTC
I read the article, and indeed you might have imagined that I would be interested in something like that. As the writer seems to, I absolutely find contemporary worship to be extraordinarily self-indulgent, and I have contended that it grows self-indulgent Christians. However, I also believe it's no good pretending that Christians in the wealthy West weren't perfectly capable of being perfectly self-indulgent before.

How is the very real problem he outlines a liturgical problem, as opposed to being a more general problem in the life of the church (that may be reinforced by our "it's about people feeling comfortable" worship-style ethic)? If, for instance he feels in retrospect that his sermon on Psalm 27 didn't get to the heart of the matter, and didn't challenge his congregation to worry about more than how to find a parking spot in a crowded mega-church lot, that's not something he can lay at the door of the worship team ( ... )

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eliskimo August 29 2007, 17:57:28 UTC
I think part of it ties into what I was reading the last time I posted about worship (http://eliskimo.livejournal.com/163388.html). It was an excerpt from Shane Hipps' book The Hidden Power of Electronic Culture:

"Perhaps this is because we mistakenly believe that to acknowledge suffering might mean we are ungrateful or lacking in faith. More likely it is because grief is an inefficient and unpleasant emotion that conflicts with the efficient and entertaining biases of today's culture."

We don't like to acknowledging suffering *at all* - but if we don't acknowledge it, it is as good as pretending it doesn't exist, which in turn fails to prepare us for any hardship. So, not finding a parking space becomes A Big Deal when it shouldn't be.

When I posted the excerpts from the other article back in June, forest_lady commented, "Christians ... are supposed to be happy or at least profoundly grateful once baptised because their succour and refuge is certain and promised," which is true, but ( ... )

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eliskimo August 29 2007, 18:36:30 UTC
Also, since you and I share some concerns, I thought I might also point you at this post of mine:
http://eliskimo.livejournal.com/85134.html

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forest_lady August 29 2007, 20:28:37 UTC
I'd love to have some sort of discussion like this in person. Having been thoughtful and devout in my youth, and still very thoughtful, if unsure about where to place my devotion, these thoughts matter to me a great deal.

I'm not sure I believe in God any more - at least, if I do, I'm quite the heretic. But I find it very hard to believe that any human being, except possibly Jesus, has any idea of what "really matters to God". A claim to know such a thing I actually find rather scary.

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eliskimo September 3 2007, 18:35:08 UTC
"A claim to know [what 'really matters to God'] I actually find rather scary."

I think I understand where you are coming from, but I don't share the fear. Probably because aside from David Koresh type self-styled prophets who claim to know "the Will of God," I find I understand most Christian who talk about knowing God to have either or stated or unstated underlying caveat of "as far as I understand."

One of the things that sets Christianity, and to a certain extent Judaism, apart in the field of world religions is the idea that the Creator of the Universe is knowable, and wants to be known by his creation. The challenge for the Christian then is determining how to understand this concept. Who is God? And how does one "know" God? Or attempt to fathom the will of God ( ... )

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forest_lady September 6 2007, 12:53:17 UTC
As you say, it's a life-long path - and best approached with great humility.
I think of monastics - there are the contemplatives and then there are the practical ones. (Not mutually exclusive, of course). There's the "be still, etc" approach and the you are God's hands in the world approach.

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