Hello Sweetie: A Doctor/River Essay.
One thing, before I start...
The other day my eldest (Miss M, 11 y.o.) said to me:
“You know, I think River would be pretty quick to shut up anyone who says that girls aren’t as good as boys!”I could only agree wholeheartedly. Because here’s the thing: River is awesome. River is smart and brilliant and capable and can hold her own against the ( Read more... )
The other day my eldest (Miss M, 11 y.o.) said to me:
“You know, I think River would be pretty quick to shut up anyone who says that girls aren’t as good as boys!”I could only agree wholeheartedly. Because here’s the thing: River is awesome. River is smart and brilliant and capable and can hold her own against the ( Read more... )
And your daughter's comment makes me very, very happy. I wish I had River Song around when I was a little girl; I always ended up sympathizing with the evil witches in fairy tales because it was the most palatable option I had.
Oh, and thanks for quoting me!
Their married-couple interaction is a thing of pure beauty.I also appreciate how Steven Moffat, writer of sitcoms, is taking every annoying sitcom marriage cliche and making it a private joke between them. At first I just found this funny, but now I take it as a sign that Moffat plans to treat marriage very seriously indeed in this show. He's taken what--let's face it--amounts to the entire substance of what marriage is on most shows and is using it almost as a meta commentary running over the substance of what's going on--yet another instance of him playing with text and subtext, flipping them over on themselves. I'm anticipating a very thoughtful and unconventional portrait of marriage (one that we can already ( ... )
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Very much looking forward to watching River's episodes in her order to mine them for insights. It hadn't occurred to me, for instance, until I read this that part of her sang froid in ToA has to do with her knowing how soon he's going to come around to liking her, but it makes sense. And something that struck me recently is that she must be so quick to look after Amy in those episodes because she's been to her house, seen the dolls and such, and knows *exactly* how broken Amy is, how much support she needs, how much Amy is going to mean to the Doctor, and how casually he is treating her now ("River, hug Amy."). She is really looking out for the Doctor here, and covering for his failings, far more than anyone else realizes at the time.
Finally, then I’ve been pondering River’s fate, and the Doctor’s actions. It is quite clearly a problematic endingI'm so divided on this. All signs ( ... )
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Same here! It'll be fascinating.
It hadn't occurred to me, for instance, until I read this that part of her sang froid in ToA has to do with her knowing how soon he's going to come around to liking her, but it makes sense.
I've started to think backwards I think... ;)
And something that struck me recently is that she must be so quick to look after Amy in those episodes because she's been to her house, seen the dolls and such, and knows *exactly* how broken Amy is, how much support she needs, how much Amy is going to mean to the Doctor, and how casually he is treating her now ("River, hug Amy."). She is really looking out for the Doctor here, and covering for his failings, far more than anyone else realizes at the time.
That is an EXCELLENT point!
I'm so divided on this. All signs point to Moff intending that as a genuinely happy ending (not that he gets final say, but it bears consideration), and the involvement of whatever older Doctor ( ... )
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Oooof . . . That's making me scared. The last time that happened to me was when I was reading Time's Arrow (which happens backwards--like, things fall up). I couldn't interpret cause and effect properly for days.
Well there is the timey-wimey aspect, and I think he'll be wary enough of not upsetting his own history to most definitely give her the screwdriver. What does he do afterwards? Will he do anything at all? It'll be interesting to see what happens. (Or doesn't happen.)
Ok, that's a fair point. I do feel like there's too much to do with alive River already though. I kind of doubt we'll come back to dead River.
Partly because to have her as a kind of mother of the universe ties in beautifully with her being his wife. ♥Exactly. And I am far more comfortable with this aspect of River, as well, with River paired with Eleven, who is so much more paternal than Ten. No, of course they're not going to have their own kids, but they will play mom and dad to the universe, which . . . ( ... )
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It's not *quite* that bad, but the timey-wimey aspects are threatening to give me a headache...
Ok, that's a fair point. I do feel like there's too much to do with alive River already though. I kind of doubt we'll come back to dead River.
Although as selenak says below, we might have the Doctor touch on the subject of 'what are your thoughts on the afterlife' at some point. That would be neat.
Exactly. And I am far more comfortable with this aspect of River, as well, with River paired with Eleven, who is so much more paternal than Ten. No, of course they're not going to have their own kids, but they will play mom and dad to the universe, which . . . such a lovely concept to have in a show that's so conscious of its young audience.
I just realised that now I *desperately* want Jenny back so they can parent her...
I had the same ( ... )
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Ok, that would be cool. I would like to see that.
I got [info]dtissagirl to make it for me before the S5 started, since I loved that VoV snippet very much. I'm actually thinking of asking her to maybe re-do it, since now there are *good* screencaps... (You're more than welcome to snag though!)
*is sorely tempted* I'm gonna have to give an existing icon the boot, but it might be worth it. Yes, yes, I need that icon. Thank you.
It ended up 10,000 words long, and is still the longest meta I've ever written. So yeah, rambling is something I take seriously... *g*
Ha! Oh, that is awesome.
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She also has what is my favourite theory, which is that River kills the Doctor the first time she meets him. The symmetry of that would be just stunning.
*is sorely tempted* I'm gonna have to give an existing icon the boot, but it might be worth it. Yes, yes, I need that icon. Thank you.
My pleasure! If I get an updated version I'll let you know.
Ha! Oh, that is awesome.
Me in a nutshell. (And that was Buffy-verse meta btw, talking about the meaning of soul and redemption. A tricky thing, since the parameters often shifted within the show, and getting it all to fit together was not easy.)
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*beams*
And your daughter's comment makes me very, very happy. I wish I had River Song around when I was a little girl; I always ended up sympathizing with the evil witches in fairy tales because it was the most palatable option I had.
I'm pretty sure I found a fair few heroines (I devoured books, and we didn't have a TV), but to have someone as awesome as River (and Amy etc.) right there is truly a gift.
He's taken what--let's face it--amounts to the entire substance of what marriage is on most shows and is using it almost as a meta commentary running over the substance of what's going on--yet another instance of him playing with text and subtext, flipping them over on themselves.
I swear, that man will be the death of me. I've not had anything to analyse *properly* since BtVS/AtS ended, and suddenly there's this and I'm getting lost in all the themes and layers etc. etc.
I'm reminded of the "yes" conversation. Because that's what it must always be between them, the only ( ... )
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Here's where it's quite personal for me, I guess. I have a personality type that our society just does not consider feminine. Growing up, I found a fair number of heroines I could admire, but practically none I could identify with (and I too was a voracious reader). People like me, in fiction, are not women, and that starts to hurt after awhile, even if I couldn't quite put my finger on what was wrong when I was little.
I swear, that man will be the death of me. I've not had anything to analyse *properly* since BtVS/AtS ended, and suddenly there's this and I'm getting lost in all the themes and layers etc. etc.
Ah, but it will be a good death. I'm right there with you, though. This show has stolen every speck of my mental energy to use for analysis . . . and I love it. Must get around to actually watching Buffy at some point.
I think what I love most about ( ... )
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Yeah, I can see that being a problem.
Ah, but it will be a good death. I'm right there with you, though. This show has stolen every speck of my mental energy to use for analysis . . . and I love it.
This essay was actually culled from my Big Bang/S5 post, because I realised I'd wandered off on a tangent to such an extent that I could just post it on its own... (Said Big Bang/S5 post is still a work in progress thanks to me wandering down every tangent I see. *sigh*)
Yes! Oh, that is beautiful. Yup, definitely watching Buffy (soon-ish).
Oh do! Do! Buffy is *my* show, y'know? The one that brought me into fandom and taught me everything. Although keep in mind that Joss and RTD are VERY alike in a lot of ways. (Rule of thumb: If people are happy it means that HORRIBLE THINGS ARE ABOUT TO HAPPEN!)
Hahahahahahaha! Very good. You win. Although, I would argue that River does so just as ( ... )
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I hesitate because, the other Whedon things that I've seen (Firefly and Dr. Horrible), while I like them very much, I just don't *love* them in the way so many seem to. I recognize them as very good, but they don't spark for me.
Oh yes, he re-boots the universe so a little girl can have her parents back, and does it in the manner of a doting grandfather. That's why he gets away with it.
Yes, yes, yes.
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Firefly is lovely, and I like it very much, but I never got the spark either. Dr Horrible... interesting and fun, but kinda fluffy. Buffy? Well. I was one of those who watched from the start, pretty much, and it sort of snuck up on me. But it's so rich, and dense and the characters evolve so much that I don't really have much to compare it to. And dear God, the meta. I spent about... 3 years writing nothing except Buffy-verse meta/fic. It might not click, but I'd say take a chance. Firefly etc are mere footnotes in comparison. :)
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