Comments | elisi: One fan's perspective... (no spoilers)

elisi

One fan's perspective... (no spoilers)

Jun 04, 2010 14:24

So, what with the Amy wank/kerfuffle/thing and the apparent split through fandom into RTD and Moff factions (where all the Old!Who fans are sitting back and going 'Been there, done that, got the T-shirt 30 years ago!'), I've been thinking, and have almost written out the following in the response to a dozen different posts. Instead I thought I'd ( Read more... )

whoniversal meta

Comments 40

zanthinegirl June 4 2010, 16:47:01 UTC

I'm pretty much with you on this one. I love my shiny shows (I'd add the Sarah Jane Adventures to DW & TW) to distraction, and find all the hatred a little weird.

Of course I came to DW in the first season of the new show, and never having watched the old school I didn't have 40+ years of baggage that the Old Skool fans seem to delight in carrying.

I get the River Song hatred even less than I get the Amy hatred. I liked River in season 4, but she rocks in season 5. But she interacts with the Doctor as an equal, and I wonder if that's not what bugs some of fandom. I've watched (and enjoyed) some classic DW, and I don't remember that even happening!

I try and avoid hanging out in the DW forums. SCary fanboys are scary! And seem to have a problem with Strong Women unless they're conventional sex objects. So Leyla is just fine, but Donna is a harridan.

elisi June 4 2010, 17:02:11 UTC

I'm pretty much with you on this one. I love my shiny shows (I'd add the Sarah Jane Adventures to DW & TW) to distraction, and find all the hatred a little weird.
If they don't like it, why do they watch?

Of course I came to DW in the first season of the new show, and never having watched the old school I didn't have 40+ years of baggage that the Old Skool fans seem to delight in carrying.
Heeee! Back in the days when you had to walk 12 miles uphill in a snowstorm to watch it...

I get the River Song hatred even less than I get the Amy hatred. I liked River in season 4, but she rocks in season 5. But she interacts with the Doctor as an equal, and I wonder if that's not what bugs some of fandom.
Oh it is. How *dare* she out-awesome the Doctor? And not feel bad about it? I love her to pieces and can't wait to see her again! Esp because she has the best chemistry with the Doctor like, ever. :)

I try and avoid hanging out in the DW forums.
Oh yes. I never go there.

And seem to have a problem with Strong Women unless they're ( ... )

yourlibrarian June 4 2010, 17:33:03 UTC

It's not their fault they got stuck with a bad story. And generally, a bad story can be fixed with some judicious fanwanking.

What a wonderful way to put this. Yes, so many of us hold on to the characters even when the show really hits the skids. And given my love of Buffy it's sad that so rarely am I given female characters who are also allowed to be meaningful. (I know nothing of the Who issue, but the general problem does not seem unique).

What's worse is when I look back at older shows and films, although they seem dated now in some respects regarding the treatment of women, I also think that they were actually allowed to be more human than they are today.

elisi June 4 2010, 19:29:46 UTC

What a wonderful way to put this. Yes, so many of us hold on to the characters even when the show really hits the skids.
Indeed. And with Doctor Who, it's usually just the odd episode (since every episode is generally self-contained), so it doesn't affect things too much.

And given my love of Buffy it's sad that so rarely am I given female characters who are also allowed to be meaningful. (I know nothing of the Who issue, but the general problem does not seem unique).
Sadly it isn't. The current wank is all about the main female character being too sexy (miniskirts etc), and it's making me very sad, since she's generally awsome, and seeing other women judging her entirely on her looks is depressing.

What's worse is when I look back at older shows and films, although they seem dated now in some respects regarding the treatment of women, I also think that they were actually allowed to be more human than they are today.I've been thinking about this, and it might have something to do with the fact that gender roles were clearly defined ( ... )

caz963 June 4 2010, 22:45:55 UTC

First off, I have to admit that I'm not a fan of Amy - but that apart, I agree with practically everything else you've said ( ... )

elisi June 5 2010, 14:26:09 UTC

First off, I have to admit that I'm not a fan of Amy - but that apart, I agree with practically everything else you've said!
Well liking or disliking characters is a very individual thing, but if you agree with the other stuff, that makes me very happy. :)

Although I think her manner of dress is a bit impractical what with all the running and clambering over stuff that's involved!
True, but then I think she likes being awkward. *g* And at least she'd got practical shoes...

Being a kissogram? What's surprised me is how many people have equated that with being a stripper, when it's nothing of the sort.
Same here. The kissogram job strikes me as a sort of not-job, something she can do with very little effort or investment, whilst hoping that the Doctor comes back.

My problems with the character are do do with the fact that - IMO - she's whiny and needs to get over herself, and that I don't think she's been particularly well written or acted.I've seen this a fair bit, and find it very odd. Guess I ought to write that Amy-meta I've got ( ... )

caz963 June 5 2010, 16:16:15 UTC

Amy-meta is good :-) I really WANT to like her, but I really can't, and she's not growing on me either, which makes me sad. I've tried to put my problems with her into words, and really it boils down to what I said in my other comment. I get that she's got "issues" arising (probably) from the fact that she "hasn't got" any paremts and the Doctor's five minutes being twelve years, but for me anyway, that's still no excuse for what I see as her selfishness and self-centredness.

I freely admit though, that my view could well be coloured by my job - I'm a tescher (not sure if you're in the UK or not?) at a secondary school, so I deal with kids aged 11-16+ all week, and sadly, I see similar traits in many of them - a lack of concern for anything that doesn't directly affect them advantageously (Amy's head on the table in Cold Earth really rubbed me up the wrong way!), an overblown sense of self-importance and entitlement, and other things I won't bore you with. I've yet to see any sense of a real connection between her and the Doctor - ( ... )

elisi June 6 2010, 20:02:45 UTC

Amy-meta is good :-)
I'll get there. Life is just... busy. And part of me wants to wait until the end of S5, so I've have as much information available as possible. :)

I freely admit though, that my view could well be coloured by my job - I'm a tescher (not sure if you're in the UK or not?) at a secondary schoolAh. Yes I'm in the UK, and my husband works in a secondary school, so I can definitely see your problem. And it's not one that would occur to the writers at all, I don't think ( ... )

moon_blitz June 4 2010, 23:44:00 UTC

Also here from who_daily, and I agree with most of what you said. I try to avoid the arguments/wank/bashing as much as possible, simply because I don't like that kind of thing, even if I dislike the character.

With regards to Amy, I could care less with how she looks or dresses. I'm more concerned with who she is as a person. So far, I see her as being rather flat, but I'm hoping that (as with Martha) she'll have more development in the final few episodes that will really make her shine.

I'm curious to see if she'll change now that the events in Cold Blood have occurred.

elisi June 5 2010, 14:31:45 UTC

I try to avoid the arguments/wank/bashing as much as possible, simply because I don't like that kind of thing, even if I dislike the character.
Same here.

I'm more concerned with who she is as a person. So far, I see her as being rather flat, but I'm hoping that (as with Martha) she'll have more development in the final few episodes that will really make her shine.
I'm very curious about the finale - partly just because I'm wondering what *kind* of finale it'll be. RTD had a wonderful habit of letting the companion being the one to save the day (except in S2, and EoT), but the way this story is being set up I honestly have no idea what'll happen. As for Amy, then I'm sure she'll shine. (And she shines for me already! *pets her*)

I'm curious to see if she'll change now that the events in Cold Blood have occurred.
Yeah, I'm wondering too. Although the bigger change might be in the Doctor, which might confuse her? Hmmm. Just a few hours left... :)

Oh, and thank you for your comment! :)

dweomeroflight June 5 2010, 01:08:50 UTC

Also here from Who_Daily. Thanks for this post. I especially like that you didn't bash either scriptwriter in the process. Oh and River is awesome!

elisi June 5 2010, 14:34:36 UTC

Also here from Who_Daily. Thanks for this post.
Hello and you're welcome. It's been brewing for a while. :)

I especially like that you didn't bash either scriptwriter in the process.
I dislike bashing, because it accomplishes nothing. And it makes people default to the barricades, refusing to acknowledge that there might be problems on both sides.

Oh and River is awesome!
She sure is! (Can't wait to see here again!)