Thoughs on B/R and B/S... a comparison of speeches
What do you know... more thoughts! These were mainly brought on by reading Spring Summers’ Spikecentricity analyses, which set some wheels in motion. Particularly re. Buffy/Riley and Buffy/Spike.
I have to start with Spike’s speech in ‘Touched’. It’s beautiful and even those who don’t like it know that it’s an important moment. The only part that people tend to have a problem with is ‘You’re a hell of a woman’ because of the Riley echoes from ‘As You Were’. But... I started thinking. Not about ‘As You Were’, but about the time when Riley made his big ‘I love everything about you’ speech. But rather than just talking, I’ll show you what I mean. Below are the two speeches, Buffy’s reaction and the love-interest’s conclusion:
RILEY in ‘The Replacement’:
Riley: Buffy... if you led a perfectly normal life, you wouldn't be half as crazy as you are. I gotta have that. I gotta have it all. I'm talkin' toes, elbows, the whole bad-ice-skating-movie obsession, everything. There's no part of you I'm not in love with.
Buffy looks up at him. He glances at her. She smiles a little, then looks out her window.
Buffy: We better get there soon. If Xander kills himself, he's dead. (frowns) You know what I mean.
Later:
Riley: Hey, I'm well aware of how lucky I am. Like, lottery lucky. Buffy's like nobody else in the world. When I'm with her it's like ... it's like I'm split in two. Half of me is just ... on fire, going crazy if I'm not touching her. The other half ... is so still and peaceful ... just perfectly content. Just knows: this is the one. (Smiles a little, continues packing for a moment, then looks up at Xander again.) But she doesn't love me.
--------
SPIKE in ‘Touched’:
Spike: [...] You listen to me... A 100+ years, and there's only one thing I've ever been sure of: you. (Buffy looks away; he reaches toward her face) Hey, look at me. I'm not asking you for anything. When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. (a tear rolls down Buffy's cheek) I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you. And I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy.
[...]
Buffy: Spike? (he turns to face her) Could you...stay here?
Spike: Sure. (looks at a chair) That diabolical old torture device, the comfy chair. (takes off his coat) It'll do me fine.
Buffy: No, I mean...here. (touches the bed beside her) Will you just hold me?
Later:
Buffy: Do you see this? (holds up the scythe) This may actually help me fight my war. This might be the key to everything. And the reason I'm holding it is because of you. Because of the strength that you gave me last night.
[...]
Spike: ...I've lived for soddin' ever, Buffy. I've done everything. Done things with you I can't spell, but... I've never... been close... to anyone. Least of all, you. 'Til last night. All I did was... (smiles) hold you, watch you sleep. And it was the best night of my life.
So... Of course the situations and the relationships are wildly different. But both men make a no-holds-barred declaration of love - in Riley’s case Buffy barely responds at all, and changes the subject. In Spike’s case she gives him something more valuable than love - she lets him be close. She actually lets him in, which is a huge step for her too - I don’t think she’s ever let anyone in since she got hurt by Angel (And as Faith discovers - being the Slayer makes you lonely, no matter how many friends you have).
And this brings me to a point molly_may made yesterday about the love/want in Spike’s dream:
I think that it's really telling that even in his dream Spike can't imagine Buffy saying that she loves him. Not because it's sad that he can't imagine being worthy of her love - he *isn't* worthy, he's a mass murderer with no moral compass - but that in his subconscious he *knows* he's not worthy, and that she shouldn't love him. He's not put off by her not declaring love for him in the dream - he accepts that as a perfectly rational response. And by knowing (even subconsciously) now that he's not worthy of her love, it's the first step on the road that will one day lead to him turning into someone who will be worthy.
I think that his speech in ‘Touched’ might possibly be the last step on that road... because he still doesn’t see himself as worthy. He is quite simply content loving her. Which is the key difference between Spike and Riley. To pick out the main difference of their speeches:
Riley: I gotta have that. I gotta have it all.
Spike: When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me.
Riley asks for it all and gets next to nothing. Spike asks for nothing and gets it all.
I think that’s a rather good lesson.
I hope you're all having a good Red Nose Day! :)
I have to start with Spike’s speech in ‘Touched’. It’s beautiful and even those who don’t like it know that it’s an important moment. The only part that people tend to have a problem with is ‘You’re a hell of a woman’ because of the Riley echoes from ‘As You Were’. But... I started thinking. Not about ‘As You Were’, but about the time when Riley made his big ‘I love everything about you’ speech. But rather than just talking, I’ll show you what I mean. Below are the two speeches, Buffy’s reaction and the love-interest’s conclusion:
RILEY in ‘The Replacement’:
Riley: Buffy... if you led a perfectly normal life, you wouldn't be half as crazy as you are. I gotta have that. I gotta have it all. I'm talkin' toes, elbows, the whole bad-ice-skating-movie obsession, everything. There's no part of you I'm not in love with.
Buffy looks up at him. He glances at her. She smiles a little, then looks out her window.
Buffy: We better get there soon. If Xander kills himself, he's dead. (frowns) You know what I mean.
Later:
Riley: Hey, I'm well aware of how lucky I am. Like, lottery lucky. Buffy's like nobody else in the world. When I'm with her it's like ... it's like I'm split in two. Half of me is just ... on fire, going crazy if I'm not touching her. The other half ... is so still and peaceful ... just perfectly content. Just knows: this is the one. (Smiles a little, continues packing for a moment, then looks up at Xander again.) But she doesn't love me.
--------
SPIKE in ‘Touched’:
Spike: [...] You listen to me... A 100+ years, and there's only one thing I've ever been sure of: you. (Buffy looks away; he reaches toward her face) Hey, look at me. I'm not asking you for anything. When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. (a tear rolls down Buffy's cheek) I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you. And I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy.
[...]
Buffy: Spike? (he turns to face her) Could you...stay here?
Spike: Sure. (looks at a chair) That diabolical old torture device, the comfy chair. (takes off his coat) It'll do me fine.
Buffy: No, I mean...here. (touches the bed beside her) Will you just hold me?
Later:
Buffy: Do you see this? (holds up the scythe) This may actually help me fight my war. This might be the key to everything. And the reason I'm holding it is because of you. Because of the strength that you gave me last night.
[...]
Spike: ...I've lived for soddin' ever, Buffy. I've done everything. Done things with you I can't spell, but... I've never... been close... to anyone. Least of all, you. 'Til last night. All I did was... (smiles) hold you, watch you sleep. And it was the best night of my life.
So... Of course the situations and the relationships are wildly different. But both men make a no-holds-barred declaration of love - in Riley’s case Buffy barely responds at all, and changes the subject. In Spike’s case she gives him something more valuable than love - she lets him be close. She actually lets him in, which is a huge step for her too - I don’t think she’s ever let anyone in since she got hurt by Angel (And as Faith discovers - being the Slayer makes you lonely, no matter how many friends you have).
And this brings me to a point molly_may made yesterday about the love/want in Spike’s dream:
I think that it's really telling that even in his dream Spike can't imagine Buffy saying that she loves him. Not because it's sad that he can't imagine being worthy of her love - he *isn't* worthy, he's a mass murderer with no moral compass - but that in his subconscious he *knows* he's not worthy, and that she shouldn't love him. He's not put off by her not declaring love for him in the dream - he accepts that as a perfectly rational response. And by knowing (even subconsciously) now that he's not worthy of her love, it's the first step on the road that will one day lead to him turning into someone who will be worthy.
I think that his speech in ‘Touched’ might possibly be the last step on that road... because he still doesn’t see himself as worthy. He is quite simply content loving her. Which is the key difference between Spike and Riley. To pick out the main difference of their speeches:
Riley: I gotta have that. I gotta have it all.
Spike: When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me.
Riley asks for it all and gets next to nothing. Spike asks for nothing and gets it all.
I think that’s a rather good lesson.
I hope you're all having a good Red Nose Day! :)