*sniffles* I need to go rewatch this episode. I don't even remember if I liked it at the time or if I was frustrated by the Buffy-chasing, but you're right; it's all about Spike/Angel. :)
I agree that the episode has always been about Spike/Angel, but I think that still works even if it's the really real Buffy there. I just dislike the retcon because there's this sense that if it WAS the real Buffy, well, then she's gone skanky and irresponsible. And I hated that reading of the episode at the time, and I hate Joss for lending creedence to it.
I always really loved the episode for how cleverly they dealt with the Buffy issue, as in having a whole episode where she can't be caught. As for the shippy issues, I was never bothered by anything in it. I was mostly satisfied because I thought Spike came across as someone still hurting and unsure but very invested, while Angel mostly came across as a petulant dork. Which is not to say that I didn't love him in the ep, but just that it felt like they treated B/A with more detachment than Spuffy. But I'm willing to admit that's probably shipper bias. But then, that's also the great thing about the episode from a shipper perspective...there's room for interpretation.
there's this sense that if it WAS the real Buffy, well, then she's gone skanky and irresponsible. I know what you mean, and it is very sad. I love the fact that she's having fun - she certainly deserves it. (And heck, she was dating Scott/Parker (and Riley) within a few months of Angel dying/leaving.
as in having a whole episode where she can't be caught. And Spike and Angel behaving like idiotic teenagers...
just that it felt like they treated B/A with more detachment than Spuffy. Oh definitely. Angel after all has a girlfriend - that he goes on to sleep with and everything. (Angel/Nina is a very good ship!)
Loving your brain here. I don't know if I'm likely to have more coherent comments later. Possibly not, as I'm a fic-writing mood just now.
Great post, though - and I totally agree they'd be far too manly to ever mention 'it' again (except that Spike does to Illyria of course in the very next episode).
Loving your brain here. Hee! I thought you might. :)
Possibly not, as I'm a fic-writing mood just now. Well I *wanted* to write fic, but this insisted on being written first.
I totally agree they'd be far too manly to ever mention 'it' again (except that Spike does to Illyria of course in the very next episode). I sort of meant to each other... and I'm not at all sure that the comment to Illyria is re. sex. F.ex. if you asked him how often he'd been intimate with Buffy he'd probably only count the last three nights (starting with Touched).
and I'm not at all sure that the comment to Illyria is re. sex. F.ex. if you asked him how often he'd been intimate with Buffy he'd probably only count the last three nights (starting with Touched).
This is true. However, I'm pretty sure this was a coded message to the Spangel fans and we should take 'intimate' to mean 'got jiggy with' in this context.
I'm pretty sure this was a coded message to the Spangel fans and we should take 'intimate' to mean 'got jiggy with' in this context. Oh absolutely! :) AOQ just posted his review of TGiQ (he didn't like it, although he didn't hate it as much as I thought he might, since he loved all the continuity), and I happily described my 'and then they had sex' scenario.
Come Power Play I can say "See? What did I tell you?" :)
I adore TGIQ. I always regarded the episode as shipper licence for fanficcers.
Frankly, I was surprised when Joss said that initially he started writing Buffy with The Immortal, because the episode convinced me that Buffy is *NOT* dating him. I mean - there is another "fake girl" in the episode, there are another two people who love her and come to visit her, there is another man who knows that she's fake. The parallels between "Buffy" and "Fred", Angel/Spike and Burkles, Andrew and Wesley are so obvious!
Great analysis, thanks for sharing. Hardly any point in writing it otherwise! *g*
I adore TGIQ. I always regarded the episode as shipper licence for fanficcers. Exactly! :)
The parallels between "Buffy" and "Fred", Angel/Spike and Burkles, Andrew and Wesley are so obvious! I'm sad to say that that never occurred to me until I heard of the ret-con, but it's obvious in hindsight. All we have is Andrew's word...
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Great post.
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My sweet boys! *sniffles also*
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I always really loved the episode for how cleverly they dealt with the Buffy issue, as in having a whole episode where she can't be caught. As for the shippy issues, I was never bothered by anything in it. I was mostly satisfied because I thought Spike came across as someone still hurting and unsure but very invested, while Angel mostly came across as a petulant dork. Which is not to say that I didn't love him in the ep, but just that it felt like they treated B/A with more detachment than Spuffy. But I'm willing to admit that's probably shipper bias. But then, that's also the great thing about the episode from a shipper perspective...there's room for interpretation.
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I know what you mean, and it is very sad. I love the fact that she's having fun - she certainly deserves it. (And heck, she was dating Scott/Parker (and Riley) within a few months of Angel dying/leaving.
as in having a whole episode where she can't be caught.
And Spike and Angel behaving like idiotic teenagers...
just that it felt like they treated B/A with more detachment than Spuffy.
Oh definitely. Angel after all has a girlfriend - that he goes on to sleep with and everything. (Angel/Nina is a very good ship!)
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Great post, though - and I totally agree they'd be far too manly to ever mention 'it' again (except that Spike does to Illyria of course in the very next episode).
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Hee! I thought you might. :)
Possibly not, as I'm a fic-writing mood just now.
Well I *wanted* to write fic, but this insisted on being written first.
I totally agree they'd be far too manly to ever mention 'it' again (except that Spike does to Illyria of course in the very next episode).
I sort of meant to each other... and I'm not at all sure that the comment to Illyria is re. sex. F.ex. if you asked him how often he'd been intimate with Buffy he'd probably only count the last three nights (starting with Touched).
Reply
This is true. However, I'm pretty sure this was a coded message to the Spangel fans and we should take 'intimate' to mean 'got jiggy with' in this context.
Reply
Oh absolutely! :) AOQ just posted his review of TGiQ (he didn't like it, although he didn't hate it as much as I thought he might, since he loved all the continuity), and I happily described my 'and then they had sex' scenario.
Come Power Play I can say "See? What did I tell you?" :)
Reply
I adore TGIQ. I always regarded the episode as shipper licence for fanficcers.
Frankly, I was surprised when Joss said that initially he started writing Buffy with The Immortal, because the episode convinced me that Buffy is *NOT* dating him. I mean - there is another "fake girl" in the episode, there are another two people who love her and come to visit her, there is another man who knows that she's fake. The parallels between "Buffy" and "Fred", Angel/Spike and Burkles, Andrew and Wesley are so obvious!
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Hardly any point in writing it otherwise! *g*
I adore TGIQ. I always regarded the episode as shipper licence for fanficcers.
Exactly! :)
The parallels between "Buffy" and "Fred", Angel/Spike and Burkles, Andrew and Wesley are so obvious!
I'm sad to say that that never occurred to me until I heard of the ret-con, but it's obvious in hindsight. All we have is Andrew's word...
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Wonderful insights. Thanks!
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*is v. pleased*
This was one of those posts that ate my brain until I wrote it down - I'm glad you enjoyed it. :)
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