Comments | elfsdh: I was wondering...

elfsdh

I was wondering...

Jan 02, 2005 02:00

Do we live in the same universe? (See also the comments, and you'll know what I mean).
(I know it's a bit late, but I'm new at this :-) )

Oh, by the way, Happy (Secular) New Year.

orthodox, judaism

Comments 13

rymenhild January 2 2005, 19:02:06 UTC

I don't know whether I live in the same universe with them or not, but I certainly don't speak the same language.

muchabstracted January 3 2005, 01:59:00 UTC

...I wish we didn't live in the same universe. I'm kinda glad I didn't grow up a few centuries ago.

fleurdelis28 January 12 2005, 22:32:07 UTC

I have a sneaking suspicion that things weren't like that a few centuries ago, either. (The distribution of roles, maybe, but not the real underlying structure. When you're used to getting knocked around the planet, you know how to rely on your full talent pool, whatever titles you give them. I haven't met any genuinely patriarchal Ashkenazi family, in any denomination, that wasn't making a serious modern-day effort to be that way.)

muchabstracted January 22 2005, 02:30:00 UTC

You're probably right. You make a very good Sensible Voice of Reason. Also, I love the idea of the modern-day effort to be a patriarchal family.

navelofwine January 3 2005, 03:32:36 UTC

The comments that got me were these two, by fotheringay-phipps:

"I myself think girls learn too much in school, and am inclined to send my daughter to a HS that teaches less, not more. Reason: I just don't think it is a priority. I don't see any reason to make the poor girl spend a lot of time studying for tests and doing enormous amounts of homework for something that is not put forth as a priority in traditional Jewish sources. Let her grow up with good midos and yiras shomayim."

"Unfortunately, the trend these days is for girls to learn more, not less, and you can't go against the flow. I would prefer that my daughter go to a school that taught less, as above, but I don't want her to go to a school of academic dropouts. I would prefer a school with fine girls who (or whose parents) also did not view learning as such a priority."

In case you missed it: He would prefer that his daughter go to a school that taught less, so that she wouldn't learn too much.

Is this Bizaro World?

elfsdh January 3 2005, 03:50:02 UTC

If all you want your daughter to do is grow up to marry young, and be a good, obedient, baby factory, why bother putting her through all the trouble of a rigorous education? They have a point. It's the premise that's disturbing.

navelofwine January 3 2005, 05:11:54 UTC

I never said it was illogical. It's just very foreign.

navelofwine January 3 2005, 22:53:11 UTC

I don't think you realize the schedule of these schools. They are set up to train all students into becoming rabbis, even though they are not particularly successful. Kids as young as second grade come home from school at 5pm and then start homework. A little less intensiveness might be a good thing for all kids, and understandably for girls who are not expected to become talmud scholars.

Thread 7

fleurdelis28 January 12 2005, 22:48:12 UTC

In addition to what was said regarding women -- "As we discussed in regard to converts, neither they nor women may be appointed to positions of communal authority." Converts can't be appointed to positions of communal authority? One what grounds?

elfsdh January 16 2005, 18:50:05 UTC

It's footnoted to Contemporary Halachic Problems, vol 2. If the whole serarah issue is claimed to be of Biblical origin (which it seems to be), I'll bet it's based on a misunderstanding of the word גר (modern/rabbinic Hebrew: convert, biblical hebrew: stranger), but, I haven't read the source, so, don't quote me on it.