Ouroboros: The Girl in the Fireplace & the Cycle of Love and Loss in the Doctor's Life

[radiantbaby]

First off, looking at many of the other posts on this episode I have noticed that I seem to hold an unpopular opinion as I wholeheartedly adore this episode (in fact, I mark it as my favorite episode of S2). YMMV, of course, especially with such an apparently divisive episode, but I still wanted to get my thoughts down nonetheless (however random

Comments

[starsburn]

Oh wow, this was such an in-depth and well thought out review, I felt bad reading it all and not commenting so - here I am! :D
I have to say, I agree with a lot of the things you said; especially about the universe being more important than Rose and Mickey, because at the end of the day that's what the Doctor does: he saves the universe. And to put them before that would be irresponsible and pretty disastrous, so he does what he has to.

And now for the fangirly stuff; hoh my gosh, I didn't know that about the taking-off-of-the-glasses! That is adorable! And makes a lot of sense really; he's so vain sometimes :P

Anyhoo - great review :D

[measi]

God thank you. I feel like such a horrible minority with this episode, which I absolutely adore. I agree with nearly all of your points, and you say them much more eloquently than I can.

I've been very shellshocked and horrified by some of the opinions about it, both in public reviews and private journals, and I really have been actively pulling away from fandom because of it.

It's good to have a bit of my feelings "redeemed," as it were.

[principia]

Like I said in my humorous recap, I don't have the same depth of feelings about the episode that some folks seem to have on either end of the spectrum. There are things I really like about it, and things that drive me bonkers, mostly in the handwaving and continuity departments.

Disliking the things Steven Moffat has said about the episode after the fact doesn't really, for me, diminish the work the rest of the folks involved did on the episode.

[hotarus_sister]

I feel like I've commented on reviews of this ep so much that I really should have written my own post on it. It's a beautiful episode with a lot of complexity to it that is generally despised in fandom, which is really unfortunate. You did an excellent job explaining many of the important aspects and discounting many of the attacks against it. Some times I just want to scream "She's a refined french woman known as Madame De Pompadour, not a coniving whore named Miss De Poopydoo." *eyeroll* Even Rose liked her, so I don't see why the fans can't.

[principia]

I don't think projecting one's personal preference in style of romantic relationships, whether it be mono or poly, is necessary to explain/justify the events in this episode. Saying that the Doctor must be poly because it's what you prefer and are comfortable with in your personal life is just as invalid as the people who say he's not only got to be mono but that Rose has to be The Only Person He Has Ever Loved. TPTB seem quite happy to leave it as an open question, and that's good enough for me.

The Doctor thinks Reinette is nifty, she thinks he's nifty, and he doesn't really seem to put much thought into it other than the fanboying, up until he's faced with the prospect of spending up to 16 years in the 18th century (at the latest: he could've hitched a ride back from his earlier self at the Boston Tea Party, which Nine mentions having attended in TUD). I mean, for heaven's sake he planned to come right back and gush enthusiastically to Rose and Mickey about Reinette (not yet MdP) just having tried to hoover his face off - if they

[inboots]

I don't think projecting one's personal preference in style of romantic relationships, whether it be mono or poly, is necessary to explain/justify the events in this episode. Saying that the Doctor must be poly because it's what you prefer and are comfortable with in your personal life is just as invalid as the people who say he's not only got to be mono but that Rose has to be The Only Person He Has Ever Loved. TPTB seem quite happy to leave it as an open question, and that's good enough for me.

What she said.

[radiantbaby]

Saying that the Doctor must be poly because it's what you prefer and are comfortable with in your personal life is just as invalid as the people who say he's not only got to be mono but that Rose has to be The Only Person He Has Ever Loved.

Fair point. I didn't mean to come across that way. I suppose I was more trying to express that I am not sure of how to label the Doctor's romantic liasons and such and was giving another perspective than the one I had seen here. It probably came out poorly as I was composing the post at 3:00 AM, I apologize.

Oh, and I certainly understand issues with the episode as far as things like time travel. Sometimes the handwaving on such things in Doctor Who is rather comical. :)

Thanks for the response, by the way.

Oh, it's totally off-topic but: *waves* to fellow member of the RSPCPC! Yay! I had to use your icon in your honor as it is one of my personal favorite icons for Peter. I [heart] Peter Carlisle! :)

[rusty_halo]

Oh, thank you so much for writing this. I love this episode and I don't think it takes away from the Doctor's relationship with Rose at all.

I hate seeing the Doctor/Rose relationship reduced to a quaint little human thing with, like you said, mortgages and "settling down."
The Doctor doesn't want to "settle down" and I hardly see any evidence that *Rose* would want to either. They both love being adventurous time travelers. And why would a 900-year-old time-traveling alien share 21st century human ideas about relationships anyway?