My end thoughts on the crack plotline was basically "meh". I don't like the idea of things being erased from time literally. I wouldn't LOVE the idea of things just being forgotten from time, but the idea that things were literally erased and yet the world didn't change AT ALL around them... that makes no sense. It was like Moffat's actual idea didn't line up with the dialogue he used over and over. Plus, it was a good way to avoid characterization IMO. I'm supposed to be happy that Amy gets her parents back in TBB -- but because she never even remembered them, we never see her mention them or mourn them or miss them or anything. It would have been more powerful that way; I can't work up much feeling over her getting back the family she never had. (I'm also a little sad her parents were, in fact, eaten by the crack; little orphan Amy was more interesting to me when she had a tragic past and not a weird perception-fitler-y grief she could never even think about
( ... )
8. Well, GITF was pretty lovey-dovey. I mean, Reinette called him ~her lonely angel, lol.
Funny, I use Moffat's handling of romance in that episode as a prime example as to why I don't think he is going to go the epic!love route with River/Eleven lol.
I mean, I didn't really like GITF, and I would not describe Ten/Reinette as an epic love story. I do get the sense that it was Moffat trying for an epic love story, though, so I could see the outcome of Doctor/River being similar (that is, epic to him and to some, less epic IMO).
For that matter, does anyone feel like they have a firm grasp of what actually happened in this episode and where things ended up that they can share with the class?
YES PLEASE SOMEONE
I think my #1 barrier to writing Eleven-era fic is that I have no clue what actually happened here..
Has anyone written any sort of Series 5 For Dummies?
I thought I totally understood it, but River ruins my whole theory so I don't even know.
My working theory was that everything in s5 happened in Universe 1.0, but not in Universe 2.0 that we see at the very end after "the Big Bang 2". So all the key players (eventually) remember the events of Universe 1.0 but they did not actually happen. (Which I would assume means somewhere Space Britain is torturing a whale? I dunno...) So Amy and Rory remember Eleven at the end and remember the whacky shenanigans they had in Universe 1.0, but have not actually physically done any of those things in Universe 2.0. I assume Universe 2.0 also reinstated everything previously-forgotten which would include (huzzah) TND and TSE and whatever.
But River ruins this because the Angel episodes occur for her in Universe 1.0 post-TBB ....somehow... ..... ???????
Also, I would really like to know if Rory has like 2000+ years of memories or not.
I assume everything up to TBB happened in 1.0. But I also assume everything up to TEH happened again in 2.0 (but not TEH onward because there were no cracks...etc.)
I have no real clue if this is what Moffat was going for or not, and suspect we will never know. LIRL
Like, I assume Universe 2.0 is the same as Universe 1.0 except with all the things taht were eaten by the crack reinstated, like Amy's parents and the Doctor and whatever. But I don't know how s5 could have happened without the cracks, or how Amy would be in her room the morning of her wedding, etc, so I figured none of that happened in Universe 2.0
As Doctor Who finales tend to be, this one is kind of a whirlwind
And it suffers from Rusty-itis - Part One, great, Part Two... er.
I LOVED TPO. I though it was a great set up; the teaser was awesome, the cinematography (?) is fantastic, the reunion between the Doctor and Rory is hilarious - really, there's a lot to love in that episode.
And then ... The Damp Squib. Because really - wtf? I get fed up seeing people who criticised Rusty for his use of the deus ex machina and his nonsensical plots - because what's this if not nonsensical?! At least Tinkerbell!Doctor and The Year that Never Was made some kind of sense in plot terms (okay, so not much, but SOME) - but someone being able to bring back an entire universe and replace everyone's memories because she remembers someone? Huh? And using a time loop to get Eleven out of the Pandorica... that's gotta be the biggest deus ex machine EVER - and if I try to think about how that particular time loop works, it makes my head ache
( ... )
And it suffers from Rusty-itis - Part One, great, Part Two... er.
I get fed up seeing people who criticised Rusty for his use of the deus ex machina and his nonsensical plots - because what's this if not nonsensical?! At least Tinkerbell!Doctor and The Year that Never Was made some kind of sense in plot terms (okay, so not much, but SOME) - but someone being able to bring back an entire universe and replace everyone's memories because she remembers someone? Huh? And using a time loop to get Eleven out of the Pandorica... that's gotta be the biggest deus ex machine EVER - and if I try to think about how that particular time loop works, it makes my head ache. THANK YOU! I hate people ragging on RTD's finales, but then saying that this one makes so much ~sense, in contrast! :s How so?! Oh, they say, well he's been setting up a ~fairytale theme from the beginning of the season....so? That means that it's okay to have a fairytale deus ex here then, and not in season 3 because there was no fairytale theme all along there? *rolleyes*
( ... )
well he's been setting up a ~fairytale theme from the beginning of the season
*nods* - On a purely superficial level Rusty was setting up "Mr Saxon" from TRB, so there's no difference there in terms of the set up time.
As for the rest - double standards.
People need to just face the facts that for all his reputation, Moffat writes plot holes and conveniences just as big as RTD does...
Of course he does. Neither of them is perfect or "better" - I wouldn't presume to make that sort of judgement. I just find that one style sits better with me than the other. I can appreciate Moffat's clever plotty-ness, but I prefer Rusty's more character driven style.
I still think that the plot of TBB doesn't make sense, though :)
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Funny, I use Moffat's handling of romance in that episode as a prime example as to why I don't think he is going to go the epic!love route with River/Eleven lol.
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2. The plot is another thing I've switched off my brain for, although I did like the twist of the Doctor in the box.
I think it can be summed up as "AMY HAS POWERS." You really don't need to know any more. XD
3. I'd sort of glazed over it at first, but the irony. HEH.
4. I was spoiled for the whole thing, so I can't say I was emotionally invested in anything.
5. I...didn't see a change and don't expect to see a change.
6. I think the arcs were all plot arcs this series.
7. I was excited about the thought of a married couple on the TARDIS! Should be fun!
8. River is Jack. That is all.
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YES PLEASE SOMEONE
I think my #1 barrier to writing Eleven-era fic is that I have no clue what actually happened here..
Has anyone written any sort of Series 5 For Dummies?
Reply
My working theory was that everything in s5 happened in Universe 1.0, but not in Universe 2.0 that we see at the very end after "the Big Bang 2". So all the key players (eventually) remember the events of Universe 1.0 but they did not actually happen. (Which I would assume means somewhere Space Britain is torturing a whale? I dunno...) So Amy and Rory remember Eleven at the end and remember the whacky shenanigans they had in Universe 1.0, but have not actually physically done any of those things in Universe 2.0. I assume Universe 2.0 also reinstated everything previously-forgotten which would include (huzzah) TND and TSE and whatever.
But River ruins this because the Angel episodes occur for her in Universe 1.0 post-TBB ....somehow... ..... ???????
Also, I would really like to know if Rory has like 2000+ years of memories or not.
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I have no real clue if this is what Moffat was going for or not, and suspect we will never know. LIRL
Like, I assume Universe 2.0 is the same as Universe 1.0 except with all the things taht were eaten by the crack reinstated, like Amy's parents and the Doctor and whatever. But I don't know how s5 could have happened without the cracks, or how Amy would be in her room the morning of her wedding, etc, so I figured none of that happened in Universe 2.0
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And it suffers from Rusty-itis - Part One, great, Part Two... er.
I LOVED TPO. I though it was a great set up; the teaser was awesome, the cinematography (?) is fantastic, the reunion between the Doctor and Rory is hilarious - really, there's a lot to love in that episode.
And then ... The Damp Squib. Because really - wtf? I get fed up seeing people who criticised Rusty for his use of the deus ex machina and his nonsensical plots - because what's this if not nonsensical?! At least Tinkerbell!Doctor and The Year that Never Was made some kind of sense in plot terms (okay, so not much, but SOME) - but someone being able to bring back an entire universe and replace everyone's memories because she remembers someone? Huh? And using a time loop to get Eleven out of the Pandorica... that's gotta be the biggest deus ex machine EVER - and if I try to think about how that particular time loop works, it makes my head ache ( ... )
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I get fed up seeing people who criticised Rusty for his use of the deus ex machina and his nonsensical plots - because what's this if not nonsensical?! At least Tinkerbell!Doctor and The Year that Never Was made some kind of sense in plot terms (okay, so not much, but SOME) - but someone being able to bring back an entire universe and replace everyone's memories because she remembers someone? Huh? And using a time loop to get Eleven out of the Pandorica... that's gotta be the biggest deus ex machine EVER - and if I try to think about how that particular time loop works, it makes my head ache. THANK YOU! I hate people ragging on RTD's finales, but then saying that this one makes so much ~sense, in contrast! :s How so?! Oh, they say, well he's been setting up a ~fairytale theme from the beginning of the season....so? That means that it's okay to have a fairytale deus ex here then, and not in season 3 because there was no fairytale theme all along there? *rolleyes* ( ... )
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*nods* - On a purely superficial level Rusty was setting up "Mr Saxon" from TRB, so there's no difference there in terms of the set up time.
As for the rest - double standards.
People need to just face the facts that for all his reputation, Moffat writes plot holes and conveniences just as big as RTD does...
Of course he does. Neither of them is perfect or "better" - I wouldn't presume to make that sort of judgement. I just find that one style sits better with me than the other. I can appreciate Moffat's clever plotty-ness, but I prefer Rusty's more character driven style.
I still think that the plot of TBB doesn't make sense, though :)
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