Yes. Without spoiling the book we've all never read before, there's a line in his notes in the game, to the effect of "I should have killed it while it slept.". It could be referring to something we've never heard about...but from what we do know, "it" is Urthemiel.
Hmm. Which does beg the question, Wardens kill it because - we're told - they have a soul which cancels out the possession attempt. Provided that this is the truth and the real reason isn't just something like non-darkspawn not being compatible hosts, what would happen if the Architect or one of his awakened darkspawn killed an Archdemon? They're not normal darkspawn, would it still work as normal or would we get something Warden like?
I could type speculation (complete with game examples to support and debunk either outcome of such an attempt) until my fingers fall off, but guess we'll not know until we actually see one try. Mages and templars and war, meh. An answer to "Does this unit darkspawn have a soul, and does the Archdemon even care?" is a lot more important :P
I don't know why the answer to this wasn't included in the lorebook they put out. Clearly this is the logical extrapolation we're going think about and need answers for!
We need to proxy someone at a convention who can ask this for us. Because I'm sure they'll be a satisfying answer.
Theoretically, I have someone on the inside I can bring up apparent Lore discrepancies with. >.> Except I'm not sure what question is needing asked, haha.
Now I want to list a gazillion questions regarding Flemeth and the Blight and the Magisters-turned-darkspawn and and and...but I'll try to keep it under control.
1) If the Architect killed an Old God, would it result in him getting possessed like a normal darkspawn, death of both him and the Old God, or something else entirely? 2) What would happen if one of the awakened darkspawn did the same? And, just because I'm curious and because I don't think the Architect is one of the Magisters who invaded the Black City... 3) What would happen if one of the Magisters who invaded the Black City and came back as original darkspawn killed an Old God?
what would happen if the Architect or one of his awakened darkspawn killed an Archdemon? They're not normal darkspawn, would it still work as normal or would we get something Warden like?
That is getting waaaaaay metaphysical, but...my opinion:
the so-called 'Awakened' darkspawn (everything except the Architect) are still "soulless" as Riordan defined, so if they tried to kill an archdemon, it would just body hop. They're still tainted, they've just been given resistance to the Calling via the Warden blood.
Whether that would be the case with the Architect depends on whether you believe he's a special darkspawn as he defined himself in this chapter or, as I speculate, one of the original darkspawn/Tevinter magisters. If the former, I think the above applies. If the latter, would he still have a human soul? Or was part of the process that converted him into being Patient Zero darkspawn removal of his human soul?
While I don't think Archy is a Magister, wouldn't Magisters are the original darkspawn, just be Ultra Ghouls? They're normal people who've been tainted. And as Wardens are just high functioning Ghouls themselves, the result should be about the same,
The setting never confirms existence of souls as a fact and not just some philosophical/religious concept, while "darkspawn get possessed by Archdemons" and "Wardens die after killing an Archdemon" are known facts. So based on what facts we have, I too think a sentient darkspawn would be possessed like any other darkspawn.
[And then in Legacy...] And then in Legacy, Corypheus possesses a Grey Warden and walks away smirking. Could be that wasn't a darkspawn-related special ability, though. Might've been just a spell, the same one used by Flemeth to possess her daughters.
Grey Wardens have trouble conceiving children. Within a few decades there would be no people left.
I had this same thought when the plan was presented.
It makes me wonder if they hadn't codified this bit of lore at the time Gaider was writing the novel. It's the kind of fact I could see them coming up with during the writing of the game explicitly to create a reason to make a female Cousland think twice about becoming Queen and/or an excuse for Alistair to dump a female Warden (non-human or without the high Persuasion).
"We search and search for their prisons, and when we find one, we touch the face of perfection and thus desecrate it forever."
I deliberately quoted this into synopses so I could comment on it later, haha.
This stuck out to me much more this second time through, thanks I think in large part to having played "Legacy" (and recently as well).
This sounds EXACTLY like the Chantry's description of the Tevinter magisters accused of finding the Golden City and corrupting it.
[Legacy spoilers and grasping at straws]If you believe Corypheus is one of the original magisters (which I do), he indicates the Old Gods were the motivation for the Magisters to seek out the Golden City "but it was already black".
Grey Warden legend (as recounted by Duncan's narration at the beginning of Origins) has it these Magisters were the first darkspawn.
Now the darkspawn are driven by the Calling to seek out the Old Ones and 'when we find one, we touch the face of perfection and thus desecrate it forever'.
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We need to proxy someone at a convention who can ask this for us. Because I'm sure they'll be a satisfying answer.
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1) If the Architect killed an Old God, would it result in him getting possessed like a normal darkspawn, death of both him and the Old God, or something else entirely?
2) What would happen if one of the awakened darkspawn did the same?
And, just because I'm curious and because I don't think the Architect is one of the Magisters who invaded the Black City...
3) What would happen if one of the Magisters who invaded the Black City and came back as original darkspawn killed an Old God?
Thanks in advance :)
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No, catlantean phrased it better
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That is getting waaaaaay metaphysical, but...my opinion:
the so-called 'Awakened' darkspawn (everything except the Architect) are still "soulless" as Riordan defined, so if they tried to kill an archdemon, it would just body hop. They're still tainted, they've just been given resistance to the Calling via the Warden blood.
Whether that would be the case with the Architect depends on whether you believe he's a special darkspawn as he defined himself in this chapter or, as I speculate, one of the original darkspawn/Tevinter magisters. If the former, I think the above applies. If the latter, would he still have a human soul? Or was part of the process that converted him into being Patient Zero darkspawn removal of his human soul?
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[And then in Legacy...]
And then in Legacy, Corypheus possesses a Grey Warden and walks away smirking. Could be that wasn't a darkspawn-related special ability, though. Might've been just a spell, the same one used by Flemeth to possess her daughters.
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I had this same thought when the plan was presented.
It makes me wonder if they hadn't codified this bit of lore at the time Gaider was writing the novel. It's the kind of fact I could see them coming up with during the writing of the game explicitly to create a reason to make a female Cousland think twice about becoming Queen and/or an excuse for Alistair to dump a female Warden (non-human or without the high Persuasion).
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I deliberately quoted this into synopses so I could comment on it later, haha.
This stuck out to me much more this second time through, thanks I think in large part to having played "Legacy" (and recently as well).
This sounds EXACTLY like the Chantry's description of the Tevinter magisters accused of finding the Golden City and corrupting it.
[Legacy spoilers and grasping at straws]If you believe Corypheus is one of the original magisters (which I do), he indicates the Old Gods were the motivation for the Magisters to seek out the Golden City "but it was already black".
Grey Warden legend (as recounted by Duncan's narration at the beginning of Origins) has it these Magisters were the first darkspawn.
Now the darkspawn are driven by the Calling to seek out the Old Ones and 'when we find one, we touch the face of perfection and thus desecrate it forever'.
Man. The symmetry is beautiful.
I have no idea what it means, though, haha.
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It means the writer likes the image, so they used it more than once?
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