SPN 5x01 related linkage and a thought I can't shake

[dotfic]

Some SPN 5x01 related stuff:
This fic Details by vanillafluffy, Gen, PG-13, took care of a question I had about Bobby in 5x01. This author always writes Bobby really well.

smilla02 here, destina here and mimblexwimble here all make some really good points that touch on the last scene of the episode and the question of culpability.

Comments

[embroiderama]

I know it's almost sacrilegious, but I'd really like to see Sam and Dean learn that they are capable of standing on their own as separate people and then choose to be together again--not because they have no choice but because it's better that way.

[dotfic]

To me, it means more that way. When they have other options but still choose to stay together.

I keep hoping the show is inching towards that they can each be their own person, but also be partners that are there for each other. Honestly, I'm dreading another season like last season but maybe S5 will be the reverse of S4, which slowly inched them farther and farther apart. Maybe S5 will inch them closer and closer together?

[ignipes]

Yes, this!

I keep thinking, I really hope they can't go back to what they were before, because what they were before was a seriously fucked up hot mess of distrustful codependence and dysfunctional imbalance. Which, uh, hasn't worked out so well for them so far.

[embroiderama]

Yes, exactly!

[brigid_tanner]

They'd better get back together or I'm going to be totally pissed. It won't be like it was when they were kids, cause then Dean was always looking out for Sam. They've got to find some way of relating as equals and full partners, better than before cause they can take turns being the strong one.

PS. Thanks so much for the story rec. That works for me.

[dotfic]

They've gone past where Sam needs to be always protected. I guess nothing can really remove that core of instinct from Dean, but Dean doesn't have to have his sole purpose be to protect Sam. It's been made clear, Sam's job is equally to protect Dean.

As individuals, they're going through changes, and the partnership is evolving with that. I hope I'm right about this, and S5 isn't just S4 2.0.

[dotfic]

This is a really good take on what went down. Although being willing to change the very nature of who he is, is in itself so self-effacing that I wonder if Sam is just as ready to commit hara-kiri as Dean. Even if Sam's ultimate goal is getting to grow old instead of dying sad and bloody.

Their single-minded determination to save each other is what keeps destroying them, y/n?

[krisomniac]

I like that take on it, actually. What they once were got them into this mess, after all, so the best of all worlds is that they come together in a stronger and less self-sacrificing and co-dependant way.

*tingles with anticipation*

[dotfic]

I'm not sure I was even thinking about the co-dependent thing, just that their partnership transforms so that they stop working as cross-purposes and their impulse to throw themselves into the fire to save each other gets channeled into something where they work together to fight off the things that threaten them. Instead of dying FOR each other, they fight TOGETHER. That's what I want to see.

[krisomniac]

But also, nice to see them realize they could go it alone but they would rather be in it together. *happysigh*

And yes, fighting together rather than independently (albeit for one another).

[smilla02]

I'm pretty sure that's what it's going to happen!
You know, people say that they don't want them co-dependent anymore, and I agree, sort of, but there's this part of me that's thinking a different kind of co-dependency, on equal footing, partners. And maybe this time when they'll have to save the world they will do it TOGETHER.

[dotfic]

That's what I was thinking too -- a transformation. Yes, exactly -- I just commented above that they've been dying FOR each other a lot, but I'd like to see them fighting TOGETHER. Sacrificing themselves for each other isn't the only way to stop the baddies.

In S3, the burden of that specific screw up, for me, was on Dean, refusing to let Sam help him. In S4, it was on Sam, not being honest with Dean about what his plan was. Seems to me that's balanced out and so the next step is something different and less destructive (I hope I hope...tbh I am growing fatigued with watching them self-destruct).

Which doesn't actually mean I want them to stop *feeling* that way about each other. And I don't think they will.

[amonitrate]

In S3, the burden of that specific screw up, for me, was on Dean, refusing to let Sam help him. In S4, it was on Sam, not being honest with Dean about what his plan was. Seems to me that's balanced out and so the next step is something different and less destructive (I hope I hope...tbh I am growing fatigued with watching them self-destruct).

(thanks for pointing me here! It's good to read other people's thoughts)

This exactly! I really feel like so far s5 is pointing in this direction. It's like... you could read s1 as the boys reacting to Mary's deal, s2 as them reacting to John's deal, s3 Dean's, and s4 is where things just completely fall apart. so yeah, logically s5 would be about coming back together.

[dotfic]

Hi!

My brain keeps coming back to this, in relation to 5.11. As you said, S5 as the next step should be them coming back to together...but I'm starting to feel like it's not going that way.

I need them to heal back stronger. I'm not feeling the strength -- although maybe the fact they're together at all is a sign of how incredibly strong their partnership is. But it's not happy, and I thought S5 would start bringing them back to hey, there's a reason *why* they stick together, they like and respect each other. After the breaking of S3-S4.