I have so many feelings about Journey's End, not good feelings mind you but feelings...
In Journey's End, once back on Bad Wolf Bay, the Tenth Doctor tells Rose that the Metacrisis Doctor is full of "blood, anger and revenge." What do you think the Tenth Doctor meant by that?Ten, though I love him and he was my Doctor, tends to be a bit of a hypocrite. His reaction in this episode reminds me of his reaction towards Harriet Jones from the Christmas special; he gets furious at them for doing something (genocide) that he would do in other situations (like the Racnoss). So I don't think Tentoo is any bloodier, angrier, or revenge-ier than Ten himself, but Ten can be pretty self-loathing
( ... )
icon for once appropriate in a non porn settingredcirceJuly 10 2012, 01:58:47 UTC
LOL, I feel I should never answer any questions about Cloen ever again, because I always end up copying and pasting the exact same comment, but it's a pull I can't resist. Once more, with feeling-
I always find other's comments on Journey's End fascinating, especially those that believe TenII is a Clone that is evil and full of rage who was dumped on Pete's World against his evil will, so that evil power-hungry Rose could be punished and so they could be miserable. I mean, obviously those people watched an entirely different show than I did. One that I am admittedly not interested in watching. (Unless it had more Donna. Or companions bonding...)
What do you think the Tenth Doctor meant by that?Ten's speech was a combination of trying to sell TenII to Rose in the worst way possible (lol Ten), trying to make himself the villain, and bitterness that he has to give up Rose, not that TenII is really some sort of evil maniac that Ten will later need to rescue her from. I also think this is why Ten wouldn't tell Rose he loves her, not
( ... )
Re: icon for once appropriate in a non porn settingnostalgia_ljJuly 10 2012, 02:59:37 UTC
so that evil power-hungry Rose could be punished and so they could be miserable
There's totally a strand in fandom to "punish" Rose in fic, which is sad cos bashfic is never any good even.
I also think this is why Ten wouldn't tell Rose he loves her, not because he's incapable of it or that TenII is somehow tons more emotionally superior
I do think Handy/Cloen/TenII is likely to be more open about such things, but equally if the real Doctor had said it no way would she have settled for a duplicate.
especially if you take the baby TARDIS as canon
I worry about Sexy in that scenario. Cos she won't die when they do. (Plus she's not meant to be able to work in that universe anyway, so...)
Re: icon for once appropriate in a non porn settingredcirceJuly 10 2012, 05:38:10 UTC
bashfic is never any good even. I have to give some authors points for inventiveness in the ways they "punish" the various companions for not being their favorite, but ugh so much. As someone that likes all of them I don't understand why people don't just write about the characters they actually like. The fic would certainly be more interesting.
Cos she won't die when they do. Yikes. I get that RTD was trying to go for a perfect ending for his special couple, but he really didn't think that one through. Maybe when the two of them are old and decrepit they can make one final jump into the other universe and gift it to Jenny- Jenny totally needs a TARDIS. or the Master!
So if anybody doubts she can handle a Doctor who's full of blood anger and revenge -- she's done if before. If only he doesn't run away, or send her away This is wierd, and I am very much a Nine/Rose fan, but I recall Nine as being a perfect gentleman with Rose, gentle, understanding, and even forgiving when she manipulated him and nearly caused the end of reality as we knew it.
He was ruthless with his enemies like Cassandra and the Daleks but honestly that was perfectly understandable. He seemed a little remote about Mickey, when Rose thought he was dead, but I just don't recall Nine having half as many or any of Ten's tantrums, preachy, I speak for Earth moments, that we see in Ten, so Ten's not getting better.
So if anybody doubts she can handle a Doctor who's full of blood anger and revenge -- she's done if before. My dislike of the scenario is not about what Rose or her fans think she can handle--but the Doctor assuming the right to tell her that there is a cost she must pay it and he did tell her that
( ... )
whole armies turn and fleeeeeeenostalgia_ljJuly 10 2012, 23:07:27 UTC
And it's still there. How many times has River said or implied that she knows the Doctor can be perfectly terrifying? "That's cold... even for you that's cold." I'd be more scared if the Doctor was being paired off with people who had never seen his dark side and were expecting fluffy funtimes forever.
Interesting as well that it seems to be A Thing that it's the non-romantic ones expected to stop him or call him on his Oncoming Storm thing. Donna, later Martha, Rory.
Re: whole armies turn and fleeeeeeeviomisehuntJuly 13 2012, 02:19:33 UTC
I think the theme is there because more males are writing this tale than female. The "Good Woman civilizes the Male" is so old a theme we take it as gospel, not even considering what an impossible task this is. We always read about leaders good and bad who turn to women, usually NOT their wives to "help" them rethink things, but a good bit of loving doesn't change the nature of the person. However, River was wise enough to say, when everything went Boom--no my love it's down to you, to your actions.
Then again, look at the Doctor and the Master--in which Davies brilliantly proves that not only women have this illusion. Here is the Doctor believing he can take on the role of individual savior,that if he keeps his love close, and is good and brave, and always present. The Master can change.
Comments 173
In Journey's End, once back on Bad Wolf Bay, the Tenth Doctor tells Rose that the Metacrisis Doctor is full of "blood, anger and revenge." What do you think the Tenth Doctor meant by that?Ten, though I love him and he was my Doctor, tends to be a bit of a hypocrite. His reaction in this episode reminds me of his reaction towards Harriet Jones from the Christmas special; he gets furious at them for doing something (genocide) that he would do in other situations (like the Racnoss). So I don't think Tentoo is any bloodier, angrier, or revenge-ier than Ten himself, but Ten can be pretty self-loathing ( ... )
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I always find other's comments on Journey's End fascinating, especially those that believe TenII is a Clone that is evil and full of rage who was dumped on Pete's World against his evil will, so that evil power-hungry Rose could be punished and so they could be miserable. I mean, obviously those people watched an entirely different show than I did. One that I am admittedly not interested in watching. (Unless it had more Donna. Or companions bonding...)
What do you think the Tenth Doctor meant by that?Ten's speech was a combination of trying to sell TenII to Rose in the worst way possible (lol Ten), trying to make himself the villain, and bitterness that he has to give up Rose, not that TenII is really some sort of evil maniac that Ten will later need to rescue her from. I also think this is why Ten wouldn't tell Rose he loves her, not ( ... )
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There's totally a strand in fandom to "punish" Rose in fic, which is sad cos bashfic is never any good even.
I also think this is why Ten wouldn't tell Rose he loves her, not because he's incapable of it or that TenII is somehow tons more emotionally superior
I do think Handy/Cloen/TenII is likely to be more open about such things, but equally if the real Doctor had said it no way would she have settled for a duplicate.
especially if you take the baby TARDIS as canon
I worry about Sexy in that scenario. Cos she won't die when they do. (Plus she's not meant to be able to work in that universe anyway, so...)
Reply
I have to give some authors points for inventiveness in the ways they "punish" the various companions for not being their favorite, but ugh so much. As someone that likes all of them I don't understand why people don't just write about the characters they actually like. The fic would certainly be more interesting.
Cos she won't die when they do.
Yikes. I get that RTD was trying to go for a perfect ending for his special couple, but he really didn't think that one through. Maybe when the two of them are old and decrepit they can make one final jump into the other universe and gift it to Jenny- Jenny totally needs a TARDIS. or the Master!
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Ten made a big tactical error sending his other self off into Pete's universe. I think he lived to regret it.
:(
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He was ruthless with his enemies like Cassandra and the Daleks but honestly that was perfectly understandable. He seemed a little remote about Mickey, when Rose thought he was dead, but I just don't recall Nine having half as many or any of Ten's tantrums, preachy, I speak for Earth moments, that we see in Ten, so Ten's not getting better.
So if anybody doubts she can handle a Doctor who's full of blood anger and revenge -- she's done if before. My dislike of the scenario is not about what Rose or her fans think she can handle--but the Doctor assuming the right to tell her that there is a cost she must pay it and he did tell her that ( ... )
Reply
Interesting as well that it seems to be A Thing that it's the non-romantic ones expected to stop him or call him on his Oncoming Storm thing. Donna, later Martha, Rory.
Reply
We always read about leaders good and bad who turn to women, usually NOT their wives to "help" them rethink things, but a good bit of loving doesn't change the nature of the person.
However, River was wise enough to say, when everything went Boom--no my love it's down to you, to your actions.
Then again, look at the Doctor and the Master--in which Davies brilliantly proves that not only women have this illusion. Here is the Doctor believing he can take on the role of individual savior,that if he keeps his love close, and is good and brave, and always present. The Master can change.
Reply
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