Comments | discuss_realm: The debate: Dwarves!

shieldmaidenjen in discuss_realm

The debate: Dwarves!

Jan 13, 2007 02:03

Many of us love Tolkien's Dwarves, but it is becoming obvious that the Dwarves seem to be the least favorite race for sorting_realm overall. Why do you all think this is?

Is it because many people have only seen the movies and haven't read The Silmarillion or, perhaps more importantly in this respect, The Hobbit? Is it because people don't look past the ( Read more... )

dwarves

Comments 41

shannon_zhang January 13 2007, 16:33:08 UTC

Who really wants to be short and have a huge beard, even if you are a girl?

I find Dwarves amazing. I didn't believe I would be sorted as one, but I thought their creation was the most beautiful out of any of the races. The Elves and Men were there, simply by design, but the Dwarves were made by a Vala longing for someone to teach. And when Eru saw his work, he grew angry at first, but then, he allowed the Dwarves to live.

In many ways, the Dwarves are very important. I'm not sure if this was movie-canon, or canon, but according to Weapons and Warfare of Middle-Earth, if Dwarves had not won an important battle near the Lonely Mountain, the Rohirrim would have fallen to the Uruk-Hai and with it, Gondor.

Maybe it's just Moria? And their appearances?

im_an_aaangel January 13 2007, 17:15:10 UTC

I would think that reading The Silmarillion would turn one of to being a Dwarf. That's where you find out they're an unwanted race. You also have to consider living in mountains and not going out much, being short and hairier than hobbits..

I happen to love the hell out of dwarves. They have a cooler language, runes, weapons and all the jewels. Not to mention, they're pretty tough. Maybe it's just the overall unattractiveness about them that turns people off.

shieldmaidenjen January 13 2007, 21:10:16 UTC

I would think that reading The Silmarillion would turn one of to being a Dwarf.

Really? I think quite the opposite - they aren't an unwanted race so much as they are an unplanned race. ;) If Iluvatar didn't want them, he wouldn't have breathed life into them, as he tells Aule.

im_an_aaangel January 13 2007, 21:13:31 UTC

Well, when I say "unwanted" I don't mean it literally. Like you said, unplanned. Not to mention the way he locked them up for so long.. he was angry, at the very least.

shieldmaidenjen January 14 2007, 02:58:23 UTC

Oh, LOL. Sorry. Yes, agree with you there. Although I don't think Iluvatar was angry - he just had his plan for the Firstborn and couldn't let the Dwarves come before them so he made Aule put them to sleep for a while.

Thread 5

amarra_jade January 13 2007, 18:57:55 UTC

A lot of applicants say that they would rather not be a Dwarf because they don't want to live underground... well, many of the Elven strongholds were underground grotto-types like Nargothrond and Menegroth, and the Hobbits live in the ground to a lesser extent, so not wanting to live underground isn't really a valid reason, I don't think.

Good point; I didn't think of it that way when I applied. I think a lot of people just assume all the Elves live in either Rivendell or Lothlorien. But I can still see myself living more comfortably in an Elven stronghold or Hobbit hole than a dark, scary, smelly mine - not that Dwarrowdelf isn't lovely. ;) And like _grayswandir_ said, the Dwarves don't really have much of a role to play in LOTR compared to the other races. The Hobbits have Frodo and Sam, the Men have Aragorn and Boromir, the Elves have Elrond and Galadriel (and now "OMGSOHAWT!!" movie!Legolas)...Gimli just kind of gets overlooked. He's a great character, but he's never been one of my personal favorites ( ... )

sheiannasherra January 13 2007, 20:36:07 UTC

I think most of the negative attitude towards the Dwarves is the looks and the fact that they're miners and live in mines/caves/underground cities.

What is overlooked by a lot of people is that the underground cities were incredible works of art and engineering; that the Dwarves are master craftsmen where metals and gems are concerned,creating powerful and durable armor and weapons and jewelry of great beauty; that they had strength and perseverance to balance their being headstrong and stubborn which is something they have in common with all of the races. Men, Elves and Hobbits all had individuals that showed those traits.

Oops! sheiannasherra January 13 2007, 20:41:25 UTC

Ooops... that didn't come out right! Please disregard the second part above since it should read:

What is overlooked by a lot of people is that the underground cities were incredible works of art and engineering; that the Dwarves are master craftsmen where metals and gems are concerned,creating powerful and durable armor and weapons and jewelry of great beauty. They had strength and perseverance to balance their being headstrong and stubborn which is something they have in common with all of the races. Men, Elves and Hobbits all had individuals that showed those traits.

Sorry about that! *blush*

Re: Oops! _grayswandir_ January 13 2007, 22:03:19 UTC

Exactly! These aren't dark, smelly caves, but lamplit and glittering underground cities. It's too bad that we never get to see the homes of the Dwarves. The Mines of Moria don't count, having been rendered totally uninhabitable by the orcs and, well, corpes. But in their glory days, the mines must have been beautiful works of art.

It's silly to think that you have to hate sunlight and trees to be a Dwarf. You just have to be able to appreciate the beauty of mountains and stonework, too. I'm sure if there had been a Grand Canyon in Middle-earth, Legolas would have had no trouble seeing what Gimli was on about. ;)

Re: Oops! sheiannasherra January 13 2007, 22:10:47 UTC

Another point that I forgot to make is that the Dwarves cities also had shafts cut to the mountainsides where possible to let in sunlight, like the shaft of light that illuminates Balin's tomb in the Chamber of Mazarbul in Moria.

(The comment has been removed)

Re: DWARF LUV Con't _grayswandir_ January 16 2007, 19:44:01 UTC

many people are going to favor the races of the main characters

Yeah, that's a good point. There are lots of Men in the books, quite a few Hobbits, and even a fair number of Elves -- but only one Dwarf. It makes sense that, for people who have only read LotR (or only seen the movies), Dwarves would be harder to relate to.

Re: DWARF LUV Con't shannon_zhang January 19 2007, 03:06:18 UTC

Wow....Nice essay!

Moria is the only example of Dwarf craftmanship we see and look at it! It's skeletons lying about, goblins threatening to kill anyone who enters, and a Balrog. That leaves a bad taste in your mouth. By then, Gloin's rant in the chapter before the Council of Elrond would be forgotten.

But it's all about appearance. Most people dont' really want to have a beard. I think they wouldn't mind if the females got off, but as Gimli said in the movies (which is the only canon for some fangirls, not serious fans), the Dwarf women also have beards.

Re: DWARF LUV Con't mirenaer January 19 2007, 15:07:48 UTC

we did see some of it in the movies. and i thought tolkien actually did write a little about dwarves in the hobbit, if not in lord of the rings. still, i agree it's definitely not near enough to know them.

even with the prologue of the book dedicated to the hobbits, there's still so much to learn about them.