German-Turkish relations

[akiko]

I heard this story (transcript) on NPR last night. It's about 2 mosques being built, one in Duisburg, the other in Köln, and the towns' reactions to them. In Duisburg, they all seem to be getting along and working together. In Köln, not so much

Comments

[natewillsheets]

I do think it's similar, but not always an illegitimate thing. Leaving aside questions of immigrants' economic influences on a county's economy, I think one of the things that is irritating to Americans, and to a few Germans in Berlin (though not as many, in my opinion) is that the Turks don't generally assimilate into the German culture, kind of like many Hispanic immigrants. They have their own neighborhoods with satellites that point toward Turkey. (Yes, there are exceptions, I know.)

As a side note, a wall isn't just to "keep Mexicans out", it's to keep the Mexicans (and everyone else) who are sneaking across the border out. I see a difference there.

[natewillsheets]

Clarification: I meant ssatellite dishes that point toward Turkish satellites:)

[akiko]

White foreigners don't get the same treatment as "brown" foreigners, both in the US and Germany. That is the point I'm making/question I'm asking.

Over here, you have your stereotypes of isolationist Latinos who won't integrate, but just look back 100 years, and you see the Italians, the Irish, the Germans forming their little communities in towns and cities. My grandfather grew up in a "little Germany" in Pennsylvania, with sauerkraut fermenting in the basement and everything. But you don't hear complaints about them now, do you? Those wretched European immigrants, refusing to assimilate? Given time, Latino immigrants will integrate. I believe that German Turks will, as well.

I will recommend the film Gegen die Wand, as a very interesting window into the problems of Turks in Germany.

I was hoping primarily for people who are currently or have recently (ie, more recently than I) lived in Germany to answer, because Amis sitting over here making conjecture isn't particularly accurate.

[sommerschnee]

I think it's similar.
I'm living in Duisburg, so I'm used to having turkish people all around me. There are certain neighborhoods where 90% of the people living there are turkish, like Duisburg-Marxloh or Duisburg-Hochfeld. Even the signs on shops in this neighborhoods are mostly written in turkish.
I am german and I don't have a problem with the turkish people here. But I am bothered if people don't even try to learn our language.
I lived in a country where I didn't knew the language myself. I know how hard it is. But if you want to live here, you have to learn. You have to work. That's at least what I think.
But what has to be considered: We have huge problem with unemployment in Germany. And if you read statistics which say that Berlin is the third biggest turkish city in the world of course people start think that foreigners are taking the jobs away.
So yes, there are many prejudices against Turks in Germany. But not everyone has them.

(And I'm sorry for all the mistakes I probably made. It's been a long time since I wrote in

[germankitty]

Agreed. It's very similar here in Dortmund -- not too far away from where I live, Turks want to build not just a mosque, but a community center, assisted living for the elderly ... a pretty big area that they want to develop.

They bought the land, but getting the permits is a big problem. Even though the Turkish developers have agreed IN WRITING not to build a ghetto -- the development WILL be open to everybody -- there's a very vocal group of Germans boycotting them. Several ministers from neighboring parishes have been trying for YEARS to work out a compromise; guess who's notably absent from EVERY meeting of the different groups?

That's right, the loud-mouthed idiots who keep yelling "NO!".

IMO, integration definitely is the key to a peaceful co-existence; that should require a certain fluency in the language

[tierpolizistin]

It's funny you mentioned this, because this was something I had often wondered about myself. I never noticed much of that living on the east coast of US or Canada, but moving out to where I am now (Arizona), I feel like a minority myself. And I agree that there seems to be a problem with people crossing the border illegally, and then not bothering to learn the language. In my line of work (law enforcement), I once was on a routine animal cruelty investigation, and went to question someone, and when they learned that I spoke no Spanish, they pulled a gun on me, I couldn't believe it (yes, they were arrested ..threatening an officer and all) I just find it rude and ignorant when other people move to a different country, and don't at least TRY to learn the native language there..kind of isolates themselves. I would never move to say, Russia, and expect them to speak my native language.

[bunnysworld]

I live in a city with a lot of foreigners from these countries. And what I see on a most daily basis is not prejudice against them, but prejudice from them. It's like they think everybody has to oblige to what they want. For example when you walk down the street on the sidewalk and a group of them (and age doesn't matter there) come towards you, they think you're the one who should step aside to let them pass, because you're 'just' a woman. And that's just one example of many and didn't only happen once

[bunnysworld]

and yes, I know, it's not 'neather', but 'neither' ;)

[anicca_anicca]

Xenophobia is universal. The sentence you quoted about the tax money and the Mercedes can be heard in different versions all over the planet, especially if there is a large community of people who don't assimilate into mainstream culture. They're easy targets but if it wasn't the Turks some other group would fill the void, imo.

What I find rather disturbing though is the racism in a LARGE part of the former GDR population, even though there are barely any foreigners around. And I'm not talking about those sensational cases where people get beaten up, but my experience is that quite overt racism is much more the norm in former East Germany than in the West. (I have been working in the East for the past 14 years, and this is the impression I got).