Voldemort's interpretation of the prophecy

[sunnyskywalker]

Trelawney probably made her prophecy sometime between the fall of 1979 and early spring 1980. Harry and Neville were born in July 1980. So why did it take Voldemort until October 1981 to even try to kill one of them? Was he waiting for a significant date? Were the Potters and the Longbottoms just that well-hidden

Comments

[jana_ch]

I am going with the idea that the Prophesy Boy is Severus, born two months premature to Eileen Prince, who refused to go to the Yule Ball with handsome Tom Riddle, even though he asked her three times.

Consider: if Snape had not asked the Dark Lord to spare Lily's life, Voldy would not have given her the opportunity to step aside, and hers would have been a mere combat death like James' rather than a Magical Voluntary Maternal Sacrifice, and the AK would not have bounced off Harry's forehead with aim worthy of the Youngest Seeker in a Century and temporarily vaporized Old Vold. See? It's all because of Severus. And Love, the power the Dark Lord knows not.

Although I have to admit I'm really tempted by that Albanian immigrant who was riding the ferry to Dover at the very moment Trelawney was speaking.

[sunnyskywalker]

That would be a nice twist! At least Sev trying to save Lily has something to do with love and would make all Dumbledore's blathering about love mean something. The power of exploiting convoluted wand mechanics just doesn't have the same impact.

And really, that is the kind of sneaky trick a prophecy would play, sounding all grand and making you think "the one" is approaching in a metaphorical way when really he's just walking up to the door.

Which also makes Aberforth a candidate. Maybe Kendra and Percival were Tutshill Tornadoes fans, and three of them elbowed Tom really hard while shoving past him to get to their seats at a school Quidditch match.

Ooh, someone could be "born" metaphorically rather than literally. Like, he is already physically born and could be any age, but is only born as "the one" when he fully comes into the power the Dark Lord knows not. (Sevvie the Voldie-Slayer?) This broadens the field even moreIf Rowling had to pull a deus ex machina out at the last minute because she was too in love with the idea of a

[with_rainfall]

An entirely different Dark Lord? Huh. Now I’m imagining seven Dark Lords fiercely defending their territories, like the dragons or the guardians in Deltora Quest.

One per continent, perhaps? Maybe Voldemort can’t leave Europe because another Dark Lord would have it out for him...

And one more idea: evidently Rowling’s WW is still colonial era, so we’d likely have India, Hong Kong, Malaysia etc. as colonies. What if ‘those who have thrice defied him’ refers to, I don’t know, embassy officials or other politicians in other countries who refused to let him in? Who’s to say he didn’t try to visit those areas and find himself rebuffed, for whatever reason, by actually competent politicians?

[sunnyskywalker]

I wonder what the Dark Lord of Antarctica is up to?

Oh, yes, they could have turned him back at customs! Voldemort would get around that and never, ever forgive them. I love it.

[with_rainfall]

Nice job picking apart the prophecy. This is why I dislike prophecies, both in HP and other works. More often than not they’re completely superfluous to the plot and are vague, mediocre rhymes or passages that could fit any number of people, and the author invariably pulls a bait and switch (instead of Harry, it was Neville all along!). The one thing I think Rowling did right here was to emphasise that prophecies can be self-fulfilling

[sunnyskywalker]

Very good points! No one ever checked whether a centaur or a goblin was born in anything that could be considered the seventh month to anyone who could be considered to have thrice defied any Dark Lord. And they really don't consider Muggles

[with_rainfall]

That does sound like an interesting fic! And yes, lots of plants that could’ve worked - a wall of anything, including Devil’s Snare, would be an obstacle at least. Mandrakes (fitting revenge for CoS?), Fanged Geraniums, Bubotuber pus...

Unfortunately the mimbulus mimbletonia seems to have become another victim of slapstick humour. Because god forbid Neville be anything but comic relief until he suddenly takes a level in badass in DH. That could’ve been a really good Chekhov’s Gun.

Haha! I like Jana’s suggestion that Eileen turned down Tom’s Yule Ball invite and that’s where he got the grudge.

[jana_ch]

Homely Eileen refused handsome Tom because she was already into muggles, and didn't think the boys at Hogwarts were sexy enough to bother with. Tom has resented muggles ever since. It would have saved Wizarding Britain a great deal of trouble if Eileen had never told Tom his equipment was too small.

Folks here at DTCL have mentioned before how magic seems to blunt the male libido, forcing witches to drug boys with love potions to get them interested in sex. Teenage Eileen preferred to spend her vacations hitting the dance clubs of Manchester, picking up guys. Eileen's marriage with Toby was not abusive but rather tempestuous: lots of screaming arguments followed by passionate make-up sex. Little Sev was soooo embarrassed.

[tygershark]

I absolutely love your posts, they are so insightful and thought-provoking but at the same time a lot of fun. I sometimes irritate people by picking the books apart asking the logical questions.

So many possibilities, so many questions, so very many plot holes. I just posted my first HP story on FFnet that gives a small hint (blink and you'll miss it small) of my interpretation of the prophecy. If anyone's interested in reading it let me know and I can post the link if that's allowed. If not message me and I can send it.

But keeping within the ridiculousness that JK started why stop with the deathly hallows ex Machina? Why not the Sorting Hat as the chosen one? Riddle is "defied" by each of the other founders by not being accepted in their houses. Sorting hat is "born" to those who have thrice defied him by not letting him in. As for the "power" that he knows not, let Hat drop an anvil on his head.

[sunnyskywalker]

Thank you! I think picking apart stories is fun (some people take apart cars or computers to see how they work--why not fiction?), so at least we can all enjoy our hobby here together :-)

Did you post a link to the fic on your LJ, or some other easy pointer you can give us?

Ooh, the Sorting Hat would have been an excellent surprise Chosen One. Everyone's so used to thinking of it as a one-trick pony that they would all be caught off guard when it revealed powers they knew not. And we know that it does have at least one extra power: being a magic sword-retrieval service. What else might it do?

ETA: Comments here with links get screened iirc. They might show up eventually, but it's usually quicker to provide an alternate way to find stuff.

[madderbrad]

I think picking apart stories is fun (some people take apart cars or computers to see how they work--why not fiction?) ...The critical aspect of your comparison here is that cars and computers *work*. Whereas we know that Rowling's work has huge holes all over ... holes that she doesn't care about, over which she simply shrugs her shoulders. Her fiction doesn't 'work'. Walk up to an average HP fan, ask them why Harry prevailed, probe into the workings of the deus ex machina stick and typically the conversation will stumble to a halt

[tygershark]

/Or anything else that would cause her to wave her hands in an 'oh, maths!' response./

This reminds me of an old Saturday Night Live sketch where Chevy Chase was doing a parody of former US President Gerald Ford and said "It was my understanding that there would be no math."

I'm not the greatest with numbers either but I can look up a calendar for pity's sake.

[jana_ch]

Our Albanian immigrant, as he sails across the Channel, is being “borne” by those who have thrice defied the Dark Lord. A couple of the crewmen just happen to be old salts who were drunkenly rude (three times!) to little Tommy on one of the orphans’ seaside holidays back in the day.

Also, with regard to the Sorting Hat: it is “borne” into the Great Hall by the Deputy Head of Hogwarts at the opening feast each year, so it could easily qualify as the object of the prophesy.

[sunnyskywalker]

Oh, yes, we can't forget homophones. Good catch. There's no way Severus--or anyone--could be sure it was "born" rather than "borne." And that's exactly the sort of sneaky trick a prophecy would play on listeners.

[danajsparks]

Maybe Tom decided that it was either Harry or Neville because he’d heard that Dumbledore believed it was one of the two. And Dumbledore thought Harry to be the more likely candidate because Neville hadn’t yet appeared on the Hogwarts registry.

[sunnyskywalker]

It might have ended up that way. It seems like the Potters weren't especially more "in hiding" than probably any other Order member until quite late in the war, so maybe Dumbledore telling them they needed additional security tipped off Voldemort via Peter that Dumbledore thought they were candidates. (He heard the whole prophecy, so Voldemort would assume he had additional clues.) But that might not have been until, say, spring 1981, give or take a few months. Voldemort could easily have been knocking off other possible candidates for a year before that point.

Either way, I think Dumbledore giving Harry the impression that Voldemort only ever considered Neville and Harry, and chose Harry specially (rather than just managing to turn one of the Potters' friends but not one of the Longbottoms' friends, say) is... uh, not necessarily a full or accurate account.

I can see why he'd give Harry this highly edited account that skips all the other possibilities. I mean, what if the kid started asking if maybe it could still refer to someone