Dumbledore and the Marauders

[sunnyskywalker]

Over the years, we've speculated that Dumbledore tacitly approved of and possibly encouraged the Marauders' bullying for various reasons--indifference (whether clueless or callous), a liking for charming bad boys, a liking for chaos generally, as part of a plan to earn their loyalty and prepare them as fighters for the Order of the Phoenix, a

Comments

[chantaldormand]

Hmm this is an interesting take on the problem

[too_dle_oo]

Love the original post and your additions! I'd add a fourth possibility...

4) Sirius Black as a Symbolic "Get" for Dumbledore. It always strikes me that Draco Malfoy Sorting Gryffindor and flipping sides would be the closest equivalent in Harry's generation, right? I don't know if Sirius as an Order member would actually make a difference in swaying other Voldemort sympathisers to Dumbledore's side, but it seems that there's at the very least a reason for Dumbledore to flaunt Sirius publicly, especially as he leaves school as an adult.

[sunnyskywalker]

I think that's part of the "making lemonade" aspect. Would he put up with Sirius only for the propaganda aspect and a few well-cast curses in a fight? Maybe not, especially since enough people remember Sirius as part of a gang of bullies and might transfer their negative feelings about him to any organization that will have him. But if he's stuck with the kid, try to make it work, yes.

[sunnyskywalker]

I think if he suspected they were Animagi, we'd have seen some hint of it, though. He really wouldn't have have devised a way to pretend he thought they'd only just learned it after they left school for the war effort so he could put their skills to official use? He hides things, yes, but he also likes to use his followers' talents. And it wasn't like they'd have to tell the rest of the Order (security!), so he only had to "catch" them at it "by accident" once somehow and feign pleased surprise at their "new" talents.

It is hard to believe he missed such a huge thing, but it's possible he made a mistake of the same kind as when he (maybe) thought Tom was after Hallows rather than Horcruxes: he thought he was covering for something else. And was arrogant enough that he was satisfied he had brilliantly worked it out and didn't need to look into it again. I'm not sure what his alternate hypothesis was, but it seems more likely that he had one than that he knew they were Animagi and were letting transformed Remus out every month (which

[gingerbred]

I like your idea that it's at least somewhat about getting Remus as a future spy in the werewolf camp, because you're right, the others aren't much by way of prizes, beyond Sirius as the poster boy for turn-coating or James representing (not so) old money in their camp. Although presumably someone who is turned into a werewolf at a later point might also be useful as a spy... (Wouldn't there be resentment that Albus had helped Remus and not other child werewolves? (Possible out: their werewolf status needed to be unknown.) Or distrust that Remus had been singled out in this fashion?) Of course it begs the question why Albus let Remus flounder as much as he did in the years between the wars. Sure, it's convincing cover, and makes Albus' eventual intervention, making Remus the DADA Prof, seem kinder by contrast, but I have to wonder if that's enough as explanations go? (It may be, but if so, that paints Albus in a crueller and more manipulative light which seems to go universally ignored *within* the books. Let me just name my child

[sunnyskywalker]

I wonder how many of the children Fenrir Greyback attacked would be accessible to Dumbledore? That is, maybe Remus is unusual in that his parents kept and protected him, as horrible as it is to think that of the other parents in that situation. People turned as adults have potential, though possibly not the same degree of loyalty--Dumbledore, like Voldemort, seems to prefer to recruit them young. And recently-turned adult werewolves might have options less accessible to kids, like moving to another country where no one knows them or committing suicide, so it's hard to say how many would be available for recruitment.

I agree that JKR really didn't think the Marauders era ought properly, though. Too many gaps and things that don't quite connect unless you really force them, and it still never feels quite right. And yes, McGonagall looks really bad without any explanation to smooth it over

[gingerbred]

> Any hope for James after James saved everyone's bacon under the Willow was cast into doubt by that stunt by the lake.

That presupposes Albus knew about the stunt at the lake, which seems unlikely. *Had* AD known, Remus would have been a much better choice for Head Boy than James, further cementing the relationship of trust between Remus and the Headmaster. So let's assume AD was unaware of the events, and the others believed this to be the case. (Plus Remus can see his own failing as a Prefect in not acting to stop his friends.)

As it is, AD's choice of James as Head Boy strips Remus of his position as Prefect. While I agree completely how handling the Shrieking Shack incident and James (HB; oh, look, there's Evans and she's HG) manages him nicely, in this example, we're primarily concerned here with how AD's managing RemusNot once in the stories do we hear of students struggling to keep their Prefect status once it's awarded (which would have been super easy to include as a throwaway line and would give a '[Hermione or Percy]

[oryx_leucoryx]

How could Dumbledore not have known about the stunt by the lake? It happened in broad daylight in front of multiple witnesses.

I'm not sure we must assume Remus lost the Prefect position. James officially gained the candidacy for Head-Boy-ship through his position as Quidditch captain. Notice Hermione in HBP saying that Harry becoming team captain gained the same status as Prefects. If Y7 hadn't been The War Year where the trio was out of school, Harry could have become Head Boy while Ron remained Prefect.

[gingerbred]

Plenty of witnesses is always half the problem, and people tend to make assumptions. Attention isn't drawn until midway through. What would they have reported other than there was an altercation at the lake, and possibly that Severus used a racial slur? Put it this way, in RW context: we don't know much about the Marauders unless we've read that chapter of the series. Having read that chapter, readers know the attack was unprovoked and several against one, with no less than two Gryffindor Prefects looking on who fail to stop the abuse, and yet there's no shortage of Marauder celebrating fanfic material out there. And that's from people who know the 'facts'. So if people had informed Albus, still not a given considering human nature, I wouldn't expect in-verse characters to report more kindly on the matters that transpired, rather less so

[sunnyskywalker]

Even if Dumbledore didn't hear about it at the time, at least one of the faculty must have. Especially since it was followed up by Sev's vigil outside the Gryffindor common room, which must have been a hot topic of gossip until they all left for summer. Anyone hearing about that would naturally ask what prompted it, and get at least some version of, "Well, it had something to do with when Potter and Black attacked him by the lake and Evans went and said something or other to them before storming off..."

So, it's hard to imagine Dumbledore never hearing of it and thinking, "Hm, if he keeps that up, young Severus might find a way to spill the story of that prank in retaliation after all. Not good."

(Maybe he outright bribed James? "Knock it off for a full year and I'll make you Head Boy. Won't that impress Miss Evans?")

Anyway, "helping" James by making him HB doesn't mean he's doing it for James's sake, necessarily. Keeping James in line ought to reduce the risk that Remus's secret will get out somehow. (It doesn't, but Dumbledore

[mary_j_59]

I just want to tell you this is brilliant! I keep wanting to quote individual lines, actually. It makes sense that Dumbledore would focus on Remus as an asset, and (possibly) see the other boys as liabilities he could, with work, turn into assets.

But, as to the Marauders story as a whole, I agree it's poorly thought out. The reason, I think, is what Rowling was cribbing. If you are going to base your love story on Wuthering Heights, then you need to make James just as awful as his counterpart, Hindley Earnshaw. And Rowling succeeds in this. But she does not succeed in persuading us (me, anyway!) that James/Hindley reformed and became a hero. She tells us that, but she does not show it.

[sunnyskywalker]

Thank you!

Really, the only way I could see Dumbledore considering James as a primary asset is if he suspected the cloak was Death's Own Cloak much earlier than the summer of 1981. I don't think we have any solid evidence of that, and it's hard to see why he wouldn't have tried to "borrow" it earlier if he had suspected. (I mean, he wouldn't want James losing it on a mission, would he? Suppose a DE picked it up because it would be useful, and Voldemort noticed something interesting about it