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brieza June 22 2011, 16:04:24 UTC
Interesting essay! I'll have to think on it. Dumbledore has always been a difficult character for me to handle.

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oryx_leucoryx June 22 2011, 16:20:57 UTC
Thanks for the essay.

Some points: Is it possible that Albus' prizes were completely made up? Not in the sense that these are real prizes that were given out and he arranged it for people to remember that in those years he was the one who won them, but in the sense that those prizes never existed, were never given out in any year, and Dumbles created the false memory of their existence and his winning of said prizes? After all, Tom's trophy for special services to the school is in the trophy room, but where are Tom's trophies for outstanding spell-casting or whatever?

People who knew Albus' true House - at the very least Aberforth, Elphias and Prof Marchbanks, very likely Bathilda Bagshot when she was still lucid. Marchbanks was very happy to brag about Albus' outstanding magical performance in his exams, Bathilda was willing to gossip about Albus and Gellert, yet Albus' true House remains a secret.

Hufflepuff is the catchall house. People go there who aren’t smart enough for Ravenclaw, ambitious enough for Slytherin, or daring ( ... )

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majorjune June 22 2011, 20:50:42 UTC
I doubt it would be possible for the Hat to send a kid (and especially a wizarding-raised kid) to a House the kid didn't want at all. And there is no way 11-year old Albus would want to be in Hufflepuff.

I tend to agree.

And this discussion has me keep thinking about that comment Dumbles made to Snape regarding "Sometimes we sort too soon..."

The implication being that Snape should have been in "brave" Gryffindor instead of "sly/cunning" Slytherin...

But perhaps the truth of the hat sorting too soon is that Dumbles himself was sorted too soon into Gryffindor (at 11 y.o. Dumbles own insistence), and he really should have gone into Slytherin...or whatever other house someone cares to argue for. LOL

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oryx_leucoryx June 22 2011, 21:26:54 UTC
But perhaps the truth of the hat sorting too soon is that Dumbles himself was sorted too soon into Gryffindor (at 11 y.o. Dumbles own insistence), and he really should have gone into Slytherin...or whatever other house someone cares to argue for. LOL

He is good with projection. When he asked Harry to pity those who lived without love, any chance he was speaking of himself?

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oneandthetruth June 23 2011, 04:44:14 UTC
Some points: Is it possible that Albus' prizes were completely made up? Not in the sense that these are real prizes that were given out and he arranged it for people to remember that in those years he was the one who won them, but in the sense that those prizes never existed, were never given out in any year, and Dumbles created the false memory of their existence and his winning of said prizes? After all, Tom's trophy for special services to the school is in the trophy room, but where are Tom's trophies for outstanding spell-casting or whatever?

Oh, yes, that had occurred to me. It's certainly a Watsonian explanation for why we don't hear anything about them until DH. Of course, it could also be that Albus was just so sooper dooper wonderful that they retired the awards after he left school because nobody else deserved to win them again ever. :D

Hufflepuff is the catchall house. People go there who aren’t smart enough for Ravenclaw, ambitious enough for Slytherin, or daring enough for Gryffindor ( ... )

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the_bitter_word June 22 2011, 16:25:09 UTC
You raise some interesting questions, and the dialogue of Hufflepuff Dumbledore was hilarious. But, I think it's dangerous to argue from a negative. You can fill anything in the blank spaces Rowling leaves in the books. The conveniently amnesiac world that Wizards live in beggars belief (no gossip about Voldemort's origins, no gossip about young Snape and Miss Evans), but that doesn't make all things true.

I think Dumbledore was in Gryffindor for several trivial reasons, although I realize they can all be explained away.

  • He guards the Sword of Gryffindor in his office.
  • He favors Gryffindors above all others, beyond just subterfuge or buttering Harry up. This favoritism can be seen in the Marauder Era and in the way he packs the Order full of Gryffindors instead of loyal Hufflepuffs or bright Ravenclaws or even sly Slytherins, any of whom would be equal in value to a reckless Gryffindor. It would be easy to agree with you about the different houses as Dumbledore's fodder, but I honestly think the Order's made up of people ( ... )

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oryx_leucoryx June 22 2011, 17:51:17 UTC
This explains Peter Pettigrew in Gryffindor.

Peter is more classical Gryff than Remus, whose placement hardly anyone challenges. Peter was a reckless risk-taker both in his youth and his adulthood.

Neville may have been self-effacing and hesitant at first, but he ended up a brave leader.

Neville was brave all along. He started a fist-fight with the Slytherin trio in PS, for Merlin's sake. Let alone his attempt to stop the trio at the end of the book. And he wore bunny slippers to boarding school in third year - not someone who could be intimidated by public opinion.

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madderbrad June 23 2011, 13:06:52 UTC
Neville was brave all along. He started a fist-fight with the Slytherin trio in PS, for Merlin's sake.

Rather than challenging them to a fight to be held later ... and then not turning up? Which would have made him not-brave - i.e. a coward - right?

;-)

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

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oryx_leucoryx June 23 2011, 13:43:17 UTC
Not everyone who does not display recklessness at every moment is not brave. And not every one who is not brave is a coward. Untempered bravery is reckless fool hardiness and is nothing to be proud of.

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oryx_leucoryx June 23 2011, 15:55:02 UTC
Can we estimate/guess how many of the Twinkly's fanclub is associated with each house and when they joined the club?

The Longbottoms sound like Gryffs starting from Augusta's generation at least (though she wasn't Longbottom by birth, and we don't know if Algie is her brother or brother-in-law). James' father was a Gryffindor and anti-Dark Arts, anti-Muggleborn-discrimination.

The Macmillans were Hufflepuffs and supporters of Dumbles - but how long?

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night_axe June 23 2011, 16:58:51 UTC
It really is puzzling that Dumbledore's House is never stated anywhere. Did JKR think it adds to his mystique? A wise headmaster might keep his House a secret precisely in order to keep impressionable little firsties from bias, but DD clearly had no such motives. He favors Gryffindor because it's the "best" house, and it's the "best" because he favors it. Of course he wants it taken for granted that he was in White Knights Against Dark Wizards House. The only House, as someone brilliantly pointed out, whose symbol wasn't turned into a Horcrux but was used to destroy Horcruxes instead.

However. Like the-bitter-word and others, I tend to believe Dumbledore was in fact in Gryffindor. But assuming he wasn't, why mightn't he have gone to Slytherin like Tom Riddle? (And, if Albus was put in Hufflepuff for the reasons you suggest, why wasn't Tom?) Slytherin prefers the ambitious, the cunning and to some extent, the book smart: Snape's got a scientific bent and Draco gets good grades. Well, Albus had ambition coming out his ears. Aberforth testifies he was ( ... )

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oryx_leucoryx June 24 2011, 06:03:08 UTC
It really is puzzling that Dumbledore's House is never stated anywhere. Did JKR think it adds to his mystique?

Nah, I think Rowling is convinced she stated his House was Gryffindor.

And he'd have every motive to downplay his Sorting after the rise of Voldemort, when Slytherin got a rep as the Evil House.

I think he started downplaying his House long before it became known who the DEs were (and few knew who Voldemort was). Terri made the argument that the public view of the House of Slytherin became tainted towards the end of the war, when Severus' spying started resulting in arrests. Of course Albus knew more than anyone who Voldemort was and whom he was recruiting. He also knew whom he wanted to recruit to his private army.

Ravenclaw: how brainy are the Ravenclaws really? This isn't relevant to your argument, since if Dumbledore was in Ravenclaw he had no reason to hide it.Lynn argues that he may have been a Ravenclaw and regretted it - at King's Cross he speaks of how he was led astray by his cleverness and his pride in it ( ... )

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karentheunicorn June 24 2011, 10:30:59 UTC
Nah, I think Rowling is convinced she stated his House was Gryffindor.

hum...I seem to remember in one of the movies. Didn't Dumbledore have a conversation with harry about setting the bed curtains on fire? I don't know that i was stating he was a Gryffindor but it gave me the feeling that was part of the implication to the conversation. That DD had been a Gryff...or maybe I'm just imagining it.

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oryx_leucoryx June 24 2011, 15:27:39 UTC
Some fans understood it this way, because he referred to 'these' curtains, as if he used to be in the same bed, or at least the same dorm.

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