On the awesomeness of female characters

[deaka]

So there's been discussion happening in various places lately about whether slash (predominant in the discussion) or a more generalised focus on male characters (auxiliary to it) is misogynistic in its exclusion of female characters. It's a pretty complex issue and I've only encountered edges of the main conversation, but I think there are some

Comments

[juxtaposie]

You know, I've thought about this a lot as well, though I've never actually gone looking for any conversations or like-minded peoples. I keep wondering to myself (because being the sweet person I am, I want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt) that if slash is so popular, then where is all the femmeslash? I'm not even remotely embarrassed to admit that, as a female myself, I am personally more interested in fic/shipping/whatever that involves someone I can identify with (like maybe someone with a vag?), and that's what I really don't get. It baffles me. Not that I don't like slash, mind, because it has its place just like everything else, but if that's ALL you can find to ship? I can't help wondering (shh, don't tell no one) what your childhood trauma is, that you're so unconsciously anti-female. Or, er, that's what my brain thinks, anyways. Did any of that make sense?

[deaka]

Made sense to me! I've often wondered the same thing but it's such a complex issue that it's pretty daunting. (Some of the debates about appropriation and such were making my head spin, so I had to back away from the meta.) Plus I feel a bit stupid wading into something I have so little involvement with, and obviously there are tonnes of people who are balanced and like their awesome female characters just as much as their slash and it's all fine... but when I see people making arguments that seem to be putting the blame on female characters for not being interesting enough and thus making it necessary for them to be left out of fic, well, that's not cool. :p

[archaeologist_d]

I just like reading and writing m/m slash. Not any big deal about it or that I don't like female characters (I do) or that I don't want to write them (I have). I'm just not going to worry about what other people think are my reasons for it. It's really none of their business. That might sound harsh but it isn't meant to be. It really is my business and not theirs and if they want to think they know my business, well go ahead but they're wrong because they are not me.

[deaka]

I've only had the most peripheral involvement in slash (it's more or less unavoidable in Stargate: Atlantis, but doesn't feature too heavily in other fannish circles I've dabbled in), but even with that involvement I'm well aware that there's no possible way all slash writers could be lumped into one category. And for all the slash fics that bash female characters I'm certain there are just as many gen or het fics which treat female characters badly or turn them into OOC saps for the sake of love. I just hate to see blanket statements used to dismiss the worth of female characters, or to see people being more strident and unforgiving towards female characters while being entirely blind to doing so. So... that would be my $0.02 worth.

[gabri_jade]

As I understand it, the strict definition of slash is a homosexual relationship between characters who are canonically heterosexual, and in that vein I absolutely despise slash because I feel it actively undermines the importance of non-sexual affection and friendship. (Not to mention the incredible intrusiveness of arbitrarily changing something as fundamental as a person's sexual orientation.) I feel similarly about the overabundance hetero mushfic. Seriously, there's more to life than foreplay and sex. Even married couples do actually engage in other activities. I'd rather like to see fanfic address something besides sex more often.

All of which is, I think, off topic to your post. :P Realistically, I doubt I have much to contribute anyway on account of my deep dislike and avoidance of slash. However, this part of your post definitely caught my attention:

I think it would be worthwhile to take a step back and examine exculpatory statements like 'female characters are less interesting', 'female characters are more likely to be

[deaka]

For the most part I'm in agreement. I largely avoid slash for the reasons you mention (while also avoiding PWP and smutfic for those same reasons again). I have read some very good stories which happened to be slash or ambiguously-maybe-a-bit-slashy, though; usually because of excellent storytelling, because it's bit of an uphill battle for me to buy the characterisation because canon is generally law for me. (See also: why I drive myself insane trying to make sense out of the EU. :p)

I feel similarly about the overabundance hetero mushfic. Seriously, there's more to life than foreplay and sex. Even married couples do actually engage in other activities. I'd rather like to see fanfic address something besides sex more often.

Absolutely. And the thing that gets me is that in reality sex is rarely just about sex; if there's going to be such a fascination with the topic, why not get into the negotiation of relationship and character dynamics that underpin it, rather than just veiled (or not) smut? There are times when the writer is

[gabri_jade]

Absolutely. And the thing that gets me is that in reality sex is rarely just about sex; if there's going to be such a fascination with the topic, why not get into the negotiation of relationship and character dynamics that underpin it, rather than just veiled (or not) smut? There are times when the writer is practically twisting loops to avoid dealing with that kind of thing when it could have been a much stronger story if they had just taken the leap.

Exactly! Good heavens, there are so many psychological and interpersonal underpinnings with any sexual relationship - and relationships that aren't sexual yet but might become so - yet that's so rarely addressed in any fanfic. Basically, such fics are a steady diet of cotton candy. Sure, it's fun for a little bit, but ultimately it's not only unsatisfying but also nauseating. I've seen quite a few fanfics that had the potential to be incredible stories if the authors had faced these nuances head on, but they didn't, so the fics ended up being blah or worse. Ironically, it's just as you