It's like - it's exactly the same strange reaction I had to the last Bones. It was bleak, and I can handle bleak, BUT JUST NOT FROM THIS SHOW IN PARTICULAR. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THESE FEELINGS.
I know exactly what you mean - I could have dealt with this from something else but... jeez, RTD, way to shoot the crowd.
Also: I can't quite cop the reasoning. I mean. I sort of understand wanting to put the Doctor in a position of solitariness again (to contrast with the Massive Family SJS points out to him... I guess) but why put all that emphasis on Donna's brilliance, and all that emphasis on her unwillingness to be the person she gets wiped into being without. Hmm. Look, I'm all for tragedy. I love tragedy! But tragedy has purpose/meaning, and this doesn't.
Which is not to say that I didn't love the episode. (The rewatch this morning confirms that, yes, I LOVED it.) It just... dissatisfied! Epic fail, RTD, EPIC.
I sort of wanted, needed actually, for it to have been Donna's decision.
This. Exactly. In its absence, it made Donna a victim, not even of circumstance, but of the out-of-universe issues of the production itself, and that's the part that I can't stand.
I can kind of deal with the mindwipe in and of itself by remembering that, well, she's still Donna, odds are she'll find a way to be awesome again. My problem is so very much with the execution. And how much do I love that you brought up The Wire, a show that is extremely fond of shitty, unfair things happening to its characters (that's like, the show's fucking thesis: shit happens), but has the courage to play out the consequences of people's choices, and the courage to let people die. Not having a Rawles moment (love that) makes it This Shitty Thing That RTD Decided Needed To Happen instead of This Shitty Thing That Donna And The Doctor Have To Do. And that's the difference between bad and good writing for me.
but of the out-of-universe issues of the production itself
YES. YES YES YES.
In that moment, I "saw" the artificiality of the show (which I think says A LOT, because Doctor Who is an EXTREMELY transparent show production-wise anyway, what with the Confidentials and everything). And it's just - it could have been there. It was NOT a fundamental PROBLEM with the resolution (a la my issues with last season's finale, which were systemic and numerous), and that's ultimately why I'm so - well. I'm so angrily disappointed.
And, like - dove-tailing it with the Bad Wolf Bay scene, which I thought could have been equally as anger-inducing if it wasn't in and of itself plausible. UNLIKE DONNA, it had all the necessary elements and motivations to make me go, "Okay, that passes." WHY THEN, SECONDS LATER, DO YOU COMPLETELY DROP THE BALL, RUSTY?
YES. And like you said, given how transparent the show is, it's...well, it's actually kind of amazing that that didn't happen more often (I think, for me, only the bit in PotO at the very beginning where they're getting jostled by the TARDIS and their swinging back and forth isn't synced up exactly, and the bit at the end of SitL with Donna's face on that ridiculous statue were when I really got pulled out of the narrative, and those are small things, people) and that's a huge, huge credit to David and Catherine. (Catherine, especially, deserves some kind of award for Excellence in Sticking It to the Haters.) Who were both ill-served by the writing this time
( ... )
I'm still not settled on this yet. I've never been a regular watcher. I kind of prefer Rose when she was with Nine or maybe I just prefer Nine.
I do agree with what you said about Donna and the way she was wiped, but wish they could've just found a way to place her awesome elsewhere. I'm going to miss her oi oi.
I share your conflicted feelings, though I am conflicted about the Rose resolutoin as well (though yes, that observation that the "real" Doctor *can't* tell her, can't bring himself to that point, because then he'll be lost -- YES. I also very much liked "He needs you. That's very me."). So anyway, part of me is FLAILING ON A VISCERAL SHIPPER LEVEL and then the other part of me is like BUT DONNA WTF. And I think you really hit it on the head that it felt like her choice wasn't really made, that she didn't enter into that willingly, that the Doctor did it to her before she was ready, that made it so unpalatable. A GOODBYE WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE, IS WHAT I'M SAYING.
Oh well. So who the hell is the new Companion going to be? I am dubious. I didn't expect to like Donna at all and then I did and now I am sad. DAMMIT.
(But OMG -- "I could spend it with you...if you want." EEEEEE.)
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Ugh.
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Also: I can't quite cop the reasoning. I mean. I sort of understand wanting to put the Doctor in a position of solitariness again (to contrast with the Massive Family SJS points out to him... I guess) but why put all that emphasis on Donna's brilliance, and all that emphasis on her unwillingness to be the person she gets wiped into being without. Hmm. Look, I'm all for tragedy. I love tragedy! But tragedy has purpose/meaning, and this doesn't.
Which is not to say that I didn't love the episode. (The rewatch this morning confirms that, yes, I LOVED it.) It just... dissatisfied! Epic fail, RTD, EPIC.
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This. Exactly. In its absence, it made Donna a victim, not even of circumstance, but of the out-of-universe issues of the production itself, and that's the part that I can't stand.
I can kind of deal with the mindwipe in and of itself by remembering that, well, she's still Donna, odds are she'll find a way to be awesome again. My problem is so very much with the execution. And how much do I love that you brought up The Wire, a show that is extremely fond of shitty, unfair things happening to its characters (that's like, the show's fucking thesis: shit happens), but has the courage to play out the consequences of people's choices, and the courage to let people die. Not having a Rawles moment (love that) makes it This Shitty Thing That RTD Decided Needed To Happen instead of This Shitty Thing That Donna And The Doctor Have To Do. And that's the difference between bad and good writing for me.
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YES. YES YES YES.
In that moment, I "saw" the artificiality of the show (which I think says A LOT, because Doctor Who is an EXTREMELY transparent show production-wise anyway, what with the Confidentials and everything). And it's just - it could have been there. It was NOT a fundamental PROBLEM with the resolution (a la my issues with last season's finale, which were systemic and numerous), and that's ultimately why I'm so - well. I'm so angrily disappointed.
And, like - dove-tailing it with the Bad Wolf Bay scene, which I thought could have been equally as anger-inducing if it wasn't in and of itself plausible. UNLIKE DONNA, it had all the necessary elements and motivations to make me go, "Okay, that passes." WHY THEN, SECONDS LATER, DO YOU COMPLETELY DROP THE BALL, RUSTY?
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YES. And like you said, given how transparent the show is, it's...well, it's actually kind of amazing that that didn't happen more often (I think, for me, only the bit in PotO at the very beginning where they're getting jostled by the TARDIS and their swinging back and forth isn't synced up exactly, and the bit at the end of SitL with Donna's face on that ridiculous statue were when I really got pulled out of the narrative, and those are small things, people) and that's a huge, huge credit to David and Catherine. (Catherine, especially, deserves some kind of award for Excellence in Sticking It to the Haters.) Who were both ill-served by the writing this time ( ... )
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I don't know you, but this is the one issue that I couldn't quite put my finger on, but is exactly what I was feeling.
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I do agree with what you said about Donna and the way she was wiped, but wish they could've just found a way to place her awesome elsewhere. I'm going to miss her
oi oi.
WitB is a PRETTY GREAT REBOUND.
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Oh well. So who the hell is the new Companion going to be? I am dubious. I didn't expect to like Donna at all and then I did and now I am sad. DAMMIT.
(But OMG -- "I could spend it with you...if you want." EEEEEE.)
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