Comments | dawn_felagund: NYTC Presentation: "Loremasters of Fëanor: Historical Bias in the Works of J.R.R. Tolkien ..."

dawn_felagund

NYTC Presentation: "Loremasters of Fëanor: Historical Bias in the Works of J.R.R. Tolkien ..."

Jun 25, 2015 16:57

Okay, at long last, I am sharing the video of my presentation at the New York Tolkien Conference here. The full title (which will not fit in the space allotted for titles) is "The Loremasters of Fëanor: Historical Bias in the Works of J.R.R. Tolkien and Transformative Works." It discusses both the evidence for historical bias in Tolkien's works ( ( Read more... )

fëanor, conference, pengolodh, fandom, video, fan fiction

Comments 18

heartofoshun June 25 2015, 21:28:16 UTC

I just listened to it on Heretic Loremasters a little while ago. I adored it! The presentation was great too! OMG!

(You mentioned me (wow) and then I did not catch the words that immediately followed! It was very understandable overall--darn.)

dawn_felagund June 25 2015, 21:39:55 UTC

Thank you! :D

Here's the sentence with you in it:

In another approach, writers consider how the in-universe narrators may have intentionally distorted details of a story for literary or mythic purposes: Thingol stared into Melian's eyes for years on end, Maedhros dangled from Thangorodrim for a half-century, or as my SWG colleague Janet McCullough John has often noted, it seems every other character is identified as the tallest.
Our conversation the week prior about comments on character heights and reading what you had to say in reply to those inquiries inspired this! And it's so true. My remark would have included a shameless plug for your talk except that it was going on as I spoke ( ... )

heartofoshun June 25 2015, 21:57:06 UTC

It was great. I have bad hearing and that was the only thing I missed.

Janet McCullough John has often noted, it seems every other character is identified as the tallest.

Brilliant comment (not)! I was hoping I had said something more profound. Although I can see how it was quotable in the context. Ha! Did I mention Laura told me mine was pretentious during our fight a few days ago. She has since retracted that statement! Now says I was not as relaxed as she had hoped and only said that because she had heard me give better talks. She said it because she knew where to stick the knife! We're all jolly again now, so never mind!

OMG! I haven't answered your post of yesterday, not because I didn't care but because it made a big impact on me. The letdown which follows major projects...I always do that. Even when I only post a new chapter of a WIP. (More later on that reaction in the right place!)

dawn_felagund June 25 2015, 22:05:24 UTC

OUCH. I won't say much more here because this isn't flocked. But if Bobby were to want to hurt me? Something like that would bring me pretty low. There is still a lot of insecurity over the bravery I have trained myself into in recent years.

(Of course, I am by far the meaner of the two of us. I can't see him saying anything of the sort. But just imagining ...)

I never wonder or worry that you don't care, of all people! So no worries and take your time. It's an introvert thing for me: not just socializing but stimulation. And I was waaay overstimulated that week. I have trained myself to have a good bit of endurance where overstimulation is concerned, but it's a bit like the part in the movie Gataca where Ethan Hawke's character's brother asks how he can swim so far despite his bad heart and he says, "Because I don't leave anything for the swim back." I don't leave anything for the swim back, and I know the crash is coming. It is not, thankfully, as devastating as it used to be. I think I am becoming more normal as I get older. :^P ( ... )

Thread 6

talullahred June 26 2015, 08:50:34 UTC

Hiya! I had been waiting for this. I'd love to also watch/read Oshun's ( ... )

dawn_felagund June 27 2015, 03:38:37 UTC

I can send you a copy of the paper now if you don't mind the messy sourcing (things like SHIBBOLETH PG NEEDED in bright yellow highlights! :D) I need to finish the citations so I can put it up on Academia.edu; I saw another conference paper go up today and that and your comment kind of nudged me ...

I couldn't help thinking on Aredhel. I think she would be an orange one, like Fingon.I agree. The characters I included were those Lewis discussed in his article (kind of a lazy way of narrowing down the dozens of potential characters for the presentation ... ;), so Aredhel wasn't included ... odd, since he spent quite a bit of time discussing the bias against Eol and Maeglin, and it seems Aredhel was caught up in that ( ... )

talullahred June 27 2015, 10:21:06 UTC

I don't think it was lazy - it was pragmatic - better to have a paper with a sound basis that can lead to other questions than to have an great idea with many details but too big to make it on time for the conference, right? :)

Anyway, I actually didn't think that there could be negative a lot of Maedhros or Maglor fic either - lol. Fandom really is kind to the blue ones. As for the women other than Aredhel, you might be on a good lead. In Elwing's case, I actually have read more fic that tries to justify her actions than to condemn, but maybe that's of reader bias - I keep trying to understand what she did and consequently, search/stumble upon material in that line of thought.

If you need any help in the next project, I'm game - it's actually a very, very interesting and pressing theme.

talullahred June 27 2015, 10:21:52 UTC

Oh, and yes, a copy would be nice, even with the notes. :)

scarlet1061 June 26 2015, 16:33:27 UTC

I read the post on the heretic, even though I didn't comment.
I just don't always find the right words to express myself, but it inspired me to look for that lecture by Alex Lewis, and it's interesting.

You might be interested to know that I already passed the link and info of that bias part about Fëanor, to guys of the local community.
I don't believe they will "drop by", but who knows, I hope I'm wrong.

I intend to watch the video, but as I explained in a previous occasion, I am more comfortable with reading, so I'll wait for that.

I'm glad all is well and working enough for you to be able to make this post *wide grin*

dawn_felagund June 27 2015, 03:43:14 UTC

Thank you! :D Yes, life is settling back down to its usual breakneck pace and I am adapting to the new computer--I still miss my start menu, though! I still haven't found my character map or Notepad (not that I've looked that hard), but I've almost mastered the new mouse.

Thank you for passing on the link! If you'd like a copy of the paper now, I can send it if you don't mind the sloppy sourcing; conference papers let me be lazy about doing my citations as I work, and completing these is really the only thing holding me back at this point from having it in post-able form. But I'm happy to share it with friends who won't judge my wacky notes in the place of citations too harshly. :)

You found the Lewis paper okay too, I presume? Because I have that as well, in PDF form, and am happy to pass it along to anyone who wants to read it.

scarlet1061 June 27 2015, 04:05:14 UTC

Yes please, on both papers.
I'll add more in reply to the papers email, as I don't want to overwhelm here.

drummerwench June 26 2015, 19:46:48 UTC

Great job! I'm glad I have the time (being on vacation) to watch a video, instead of waiting for the text. And Wow! you mentioned me! Thanks! If I had a blank look on my face the other day, when you said you'd used my quote, it was because I couldn't think what I'd written that was particularly noteworthy. (Though I figured it out later...)

I forget, did you get Q&A? It's always interesting to find out where people's interests and misconceptions lie.

It's swell to have the aca and fan aspects linked so solidly, with the understanding that our (fic-writers') knowledge can be just as deep and broad as any academic's, and is often more so. Hope this paper and others like it lead to more recognition of this. We are all auto-didacts in this field, which just means we acquired our knowledge in a less formally focused way, not that it is less complete.

Thanks for posting this, and I'm looking forward to more where that came from!

dawn_felagund June 27 2015, 03:51:56 UTC

:D Well, it was a while since you wrote that comment that I ended up using in the paper; I probably wouldn't have remembered either! :) I just loved not only the example but the comparison to the snow globe. It was perfect for what I was hoping to show.

There was a Q&A section. (I never record that since people can be touchy about having themselves recorded on the Internet, and I don't want to discourage participation because of that.) I got some really good questions and comments; people tended to be sympathetic to my idea (which surprised me, as I thought I might get some blowback). Probably my favorite comment/question noted that, because "lit crit" discouraged acknowledgement of historical/biographical context for so long and required texts to "stand on their own," that scholars approaching Tolkien's texts from that background might not be accustomed to taking historical considerations into account.

our (fic-writers') knowledge can be just as deep and broad as any academic's, and is often more soOh, absolutely. Hanging out with ( ... )

hhimring June 30 2015, 06:42:48 UTC

I've listened now, as well as read the summary, and it's very interesting. I hadn't realized there was going to be so much about Feanorians, although I suppose use of Lewis's paper as a starting-point would actually suggest that. I think in the case of the Feanorians, maybe, the traces of Tolkien's own shifting authorial bias in the texts might interact with the hints at in-universe narrators and so encourage such a reading--do you think?
(Also, I'm wondering whether the proportion of negative stories about Feanorians might be higher on SOA than on SWG...)

dawn_felagund July 1 2015, 00:11:55 UTC

I decided to focus on the Feanorians. It was a tough call. (Not! :D) Over on Tumblr, a few people have suggested doing similar studies looking at other groups of characters. I think this should definitely be done. (The Avari are another group I find extremely interesting in this regard. Someone else suggested mortal humans, who interest me less.) I absolutely hope others will do so ( ... )