The Question of Beta Readers

[dawn_felagund]

Because I think too much about such things, the other day I found myself pondering beta readers. Before I go any further, I would like to invite those of you who are willing to give me some thoughts in a poll:

Poll The Question of Beta Readers

Comments

[heartofoshun]

You didn't have a category that I fit into, so I picked the one that was closest. I Beta read stories and use a Beta reader for a select few of my stories. (Others just are what they are and that's that.) I also occasionally work with a writers’ group and I do not credit people who read the story and only say--that's great or I hate this, or point out a single typo. On the one's that are truly Beta-read, I like to credit for the entire story and not chapter-by-chapter (this has worked because I have two loyal friends who have read every chapter of the one story cycle that means the most to me and has been Beta read). I credit anyone else also who makes a significant contribution to any single chapter

[heartofoshun]

I have also been publicly thanked unnecessarily/undeservedly in fanfiction for making a simple comment or two.

[dawn_felagund]

I've done that ... XD But in these cases, though the person only offered a comment or two, they were really valuable. Better one or two valuable comments than page after page of useless stuff!

[dawn_felagund]

You didn't have a category that I fit into, so I picked the one that was closest. I Beta read stories and use a Beta reader for a select few of my stories.

That's pretty much me too. I can count on one hand the number of fanfic stories that I've had properly beta'ed, and in every case I can think of at the moment, I was offered assistance rather than seeking it. Juno helped me immensely to get the early chapters of AMC into shape; I recently had someone email me and say that she liked "Essecarme" so much that she wanted to try beta'ing it, so I agreed. Both experiences proved valuable.

But mostly, I don't put my stories through this first. I tend to do a lot of editing and revision myself before posting, and I write so damned much that it would be a full-time job for any one person! :)

I guess it's a whole different story in the world of fiction. *snip* Any feature article gets acknowledgments from me and I have never had a publisher complain.I can only speak with a really narrow range of experience in fiction. But I've never seen

[tehta]

I think one big difference between fanfic and origfic is that fandoms tend to be relatively small and close-knit, and so any betas being thanked are likely to be known to the readers as well as to the author, while in RL authors tend to mention a list of random names of people the readers are unlikely to meet. So, in fandom, the acknowledgments are both more interesting to readers, and more useful to the beta for building a social reputation. I suspect that, if a book had been written with the help of someone famous, no editor would mind advertising this fact--and that the famous person might be quite happy with the publicity.

There is also another factor at work: thanking beta writers is a slightly subtler way of saying, "yes, I use betas," a statement that attracts a certain subgroup of readers.

[dawn_felagund]

You just put into really great words what I was trying to express with the idea of fandom circles being more interested in community than o-fic circles. Unfortunately, I did much verbal flailing. :^P But I think this is an excellent point that you make.

There is also another factor at work: thanking beta writers is a slightly subtler way of saying, "yes, I use betas," a statement that attracts a certain subgroup of readers.

Perhaps because I've had so few stories beta'ed, this point completely slipped my mind, though several have now mentioned it. Another good point! :)

[tarion_anarore]

I prefer to be called a Delta Reader, thanks. ;P (Just kidding.)

and we certainly don't want anyone to ever know about that awful first draft

What first draft? *whistles innocently*

On a slightly more serious note, being the so-far single person to be absolutely beta-less, I suppose I try to circumvent this "problem" (and less the issue of credit and more the issue of me feeling guilty asking someone else to edit my junk) by attempting to conscript reviewers into being one-time mini betas. Not that it always works (nor do I mind when it does not!). But that's my deep, dark secret. Shh. Don't tell.

[dawn_felagund]

I prefer to be called a Delta Reader, thanks.

Does that mean that you make a lot of changes?

Δ Δ Δ

I suppose I try to circumvent this "problem" (and less the issue of credit and more the issue of me feeling guilty asking someone else to edit my junk) by attempting to conscript reviewers into being one-time mini betas.

Hey, that's exactly what I did for AMC! Juno and Jenni--kind brave souls--did the first handful of chapters, but the rest of the revisions were based on reviewer comments.

Of course, who would want to beta an entire 350K-word novel? That was part of my reason for doing it that way. (Really! :^P)

[tarion_anarore]

Does that mean that you make a lot of changes?

It means I am the change in...;P (Though ironically, I hardly ever make changes........)

Of course, who would want to beta an entire 350K-word novel?

Lol, well I don't have that excuse - my stuff is ridiculously short. :P

[frenchpony]

Warning: I am currently under the influence of a strong rum and Coke (drunk fairly quickly), a couple of episodes of SVU, and my Principles of Teaching Writing class, in which dumb luck saved my ass. Anything I say should be taken with a large grain of salt.

I think that one of the reasons that people credit beta readers in fan fiction is because the fan ficton community expects people to use beta readers. If you credit one, then that's proof that you used one, and therefore, you can reasonably expect immunity from the critique: "Get a beta!"

I'm one of the minority who thinks that a beta reader isn't always an absolute requirement. But then, I'm also one of the minority who writes out stories in full, then lets them sit for a while, then posts them one chapter a week. Plenty of time for my own revisions.

[sinneahtes]

I agree with this--both points, I mean. With so many people saying "Get a beta!" in reviews and "How to Write Decent Fanfic" articles, not to mention people around the community advertising their beta services (everywhere from forums designed for that to their own FF.net profiles), a lot of people get the idea, "There's no excuse for not having a beta!" I imagine it can be a bit annoying to be told, "Get a beta!" (I hate being told things like that, anyway...) Especially if you've already used one.

Plus given the nature of fanfic, maybe "good writers" are thought to be in the habit of giving credit for what they use anyway? *shrug*

And I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks of betas as not absolutely necessary if you don't want one. I kind of have a hard time seeing myself as using betas before posting if I ever get into writing and posting fanfic. It's not like I can't make changes the story later by myself, or using peoples' reviews, or anything.

[frenchpony]

And I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks of betas as not absolutely necessary if you don't want one.

Perhaps there is the beginning of a Sekrit Sisterhood here?

Writing without a beta can certainly be done, but it does take quite a bit of discipline. For me, it's the discipline to hold a story until it's finished, no matter how long that takes, so that I can revise the whole thing, each chapter in relation to all the others. Not everyone wants to take that kind of time, especially when the Intarwebs means that writing and posting fanfiction can be an exercise in instant gratification if one so desires.

[sinneahtes]

Can we eat cookies at Sisterhood meetings? :D

Yeah, I personally can't do the "instant gratification" thing with sharing writing--I have to read and reread what I've written at least five times before thinking, "I can post this!" and then even after I post, I keep seeing things I want changed. It'd still be that way if I had a beta, and then I'd worry about making them go through a lot of work just to have me change everything and make their suggestions useless. (Maybe I'd need a beta to tell me, "STOP! You've done enough editing!" then?) ;)

[dawn_felagund]

I think the customs concerning beta-reading are due to the sense of community in fandom.

I don't know if you read tehta's comment somewhere above yours, but she puts into better words than I did about community and beta-reading. *seconds that* ;)

Instead they do something I haven't encountered in LOTR fandom on quite the same level before: they actually proof-read your story before you're allowed to post it, sometimes asking for quite finicky changes (HASA only ever got back to me about more general things, e.g. when the formatting got messed up due to technical problems or something like that).This is really interesting. Does this work well? Or does it cause drama