Serious business time.

[dark_puck]

bookshop makes a post about something that has been bothering me about fandom in general for a very long time:

Fandom is not woman-positive. Fandom needs all the urging it can get just to talk about female characters, let alone talk about them nicely. Fandom prioritizes men above everything. Fandom prioritizes male-based fantasies, and fandom

Comments

[cross_the_sky]

I actually just got finished reading her main post, thanks to your link.

That...seriously articulated so many things I've tried to put into words before. It's a serious issue I've had with fandom, and I always sort of wondered 'is it because I'm a lesbian and therefor more inclined to like female characters? Oh crap, do I just like these female characters because they're hot? Am I objectifying them? Am I doing something wrong?'. Because obviously if I'm not thinking like the majority, it's my issue. :/ And it took me a while and a lot of talking with other fen to realize no, there was nothing wrong with me and I honestly do love these ladies because they're awesome.

I really hope this actually stimulates discussion about female characters in fanworks and fan discussions. I don't want to see this topic fizzle out and be ignored again.

[dark_puck]

I don't want to see this topic fizzle out and be ignored again.

This exact fear is why I've signal-boosted on LJ and Twitter.

[cross_the_sky]

And I'm really glad you did. I reposted it, myself.

[freedom1776]

Bookmarked for later reading when I'm not falling asleep at my computer. Thanks very much for the link!

[falseaidoru]

So recently I did a paper on Northanger Abbey and I feel like this quote applies: “Alas! If the heroine of one novel be not patronized by the heroine of another, from whom can she expect protection and regard?” Now yes, we're talking heroines not taking reading novels as a serious hobby, but the point still stands. If the ladies of the world don't support the ladies of fiction, who will?

Part of me blames this occurrence on the presence of Mary Sue's. Even the ones in fiction and not just fanfiction are what injures the character of the fictional women. Then we as the reader/watcher get too ready to call a character a Mary Sue sometimes.

[dark_puck]

Part of me blames this occurrence on the presence of Mary Sue's.

Wrong.

The concept of 'Mary Sue' is because of this problem. Mary Sue is a stage most, if not all, writers go through, where they put themselves into the story to save the day. Mary Sue, at her core, is wish-fulfillment -- female wish-fulfillment, which is BAAAAAAD. So Mary Sue and her writers are shunned, and then people latch onto the concept and drag it all out of proportion until Mary Sue changes from Wish Fulfillment Character to Female Character I Don't Like.

[shadowsong26]

...i agree with all of this except this particular point: "We perpetuate misogyny when we venerate canons that have high numbers of male characters and only one or two girls."

because liking stories with predominantly male characters is automatically antifeminist? bullshit. i'm allowed to like 1776, PoTC, etc even if they only have one or two women. it doesn't mean i'm a fucking misogynist. especially if they're, y'know, historical stories where an absence of women *makes sense*. so it really really bothers me when i'm told i'm a bad person for being a fan of something with few to no female characters. especially novels set in eras and situations where more women present would be inappropriate.

that being said, everything else about this post is spot on, there needs to be more discussion of female characters in fandom. even in the stories where there aren't many of them, which are freaking okay to like, too.

[beckyh2112]

It is possible to demonstrate misogynist/racist/ableist/homophobic behavior without being misogynist/racist/ableist/homophobic. The point isn't "you are a bad person for liking this", the point is "the constant acceptance of stories that exclude women is hurtful to women".

[shadowsong26]

i know. it just...the way it was phrased really got under my skin. especially since that lumps in historical fiction--such as 'master and commander', which had *no* women (though i hated that for entirely unrelated reasons--where including women would do a disservice to the story with other stories where it isn't necessary to the setting to have women.

[shadowsong26]

*to not have women. i can type.