Very true. I tend to believe that the people who think K/S doesn't exist (or isn't at least a possibility) are only being willfully ignorant. They've got to know, right? I mean, if they have eyes?
This is essay is so epic it makes me want to write ST fic again. Yay! *waves pompoms* Best compliment ever!
I'm glad you think I didn't come off too mean to Uhura--I was really concerned about that, since I really do want to like her. I do get a little frustrated that, in so many modern films, women tend to be used as tools of a plot, rather than as fully developed characters in their own right. I mean, Uhura when from the stereotype of "the woman on the show (represent! w00t)" to the stereotype of "the smart girl who is the romantic interest." Sort of like Sam Carter on the Enterprise. Rawr.
I've always enjoyed how equal opportunity Kirk is. He wasn't made at Spock for any Vulcan thing; he was mad at Spock because he was being a jerk. (And wouldn't it be interesting if they showed Kirk getting it on with the green girl to show that Kirk is also equal opportunity the bedroom? Hm, I wonder who else in Star Trek is green?) But yeah, I've always had a soft spot for Kirk, and I loved how they showed him evolve into this really
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Ahhh I'm SO glad I read this!! I thought I'd be fighting hard to resist the urge to close the browser but here I was, chuckling and hooting the whole way to this comment box. Bravo! Thank you for putting so much effort into this.
-I loved that you pointed out how Spock and Kirk were meant to be pulled together because of all the shit that happened to them when they were younger-- I recall J.J. or someone equally important (whatchu know 'bout my memory it's impeccable) mentioning one of the biggest influences on reboot!Kirk and Spock's personalities were Lennon and McCartney. And if you know Lennon and McCartney like I do... You'd know they were as star-crossed as Kirk and Spock. So much sexual tension and deep mental understanding that goes beyond a usual romantic relationship. WELP there I go, getting all crazy because your review got me happy and excited
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I've never heard it, but the comparison between Kirk and Spock and Lennon and McCartney is absolutely awesome. That sort of soul-deep understanding is rare. *sighs*
Man, I just had to share the love of the Plinkett reviews. The first one's I saw were the Star Wars ones, but the Trek ones are genius, particularly for XI. I just loved the fact that these reviews are geared towards more mainstream fans (i.e. guys, probably) and Plinkett still couldn't avoid mentioning the homoerotic tension in TPM and the not!gays in XI.
I do blame Plinkett for the manipulator!Uhura interpretation, though, darn him. I would have much preferred Uhura as gay!enabler, but that's just me. And yay Uhura/Scotty! They were so cute in Final Frontier. That would make me so happy.
and we know that XI Spock is very professional at pretty much all times, so even calling friends by their ranks would not be unusual, even off duty. However, keep in mind, Spock began this sentence by calling Kirk "Jim." Spock is in that first-name mindset, and he still calls Uhura "Lieutenant."
I think he started that sentence by calling Kirk Jim in part for Kirk's benefit. He seemed to have Kirk pegged in the previous "I'd cite regulation" scene, and he must have correctly assessed that a first-name in such situation would be appropriate and go well with Kirk. It felt like a concession of sorts. A "so, it turns out you are not as bad as I thought you were, and now we're about to die" thing.
Something that dents the previous theory slightly, that Uhura is looking past Spock's prickness and finding something attractive underneath and pursuing it, is Uhura's treatment of Kirk.
Idk, not all pricks are made equal before God. You don't want to see "hidden layers" in some of them. Kirk is a genius and charming, but he's also a bit of
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There's an ethics problem in that relationship on one side or the other that it's very hard to read away and I don't like it. :( Whether Uhura's sleeping with her teacher to get ahead (which I don't actually think; she's ambitious, yeah, but I don't think her personality suggests she'd want to get ahead by anything but her own merit), or Spock's the sort of asshole, lonely or not, who has an affair with his students (which fits nothing else about his character), THERE IS A PROBLEM. Only if they weren't actually together before the turbolift scene and she actually is trying to comfort him now that they're both officers on more or less equal footing is this really remotely ethically okay.
And I really LIKE both of them and do not want them to be dicks. :(
There's an ethics problem in that relationship on one side or the other that it's very hard to read away and I don't like it. :(
I understand completely. Tbh, I don't think someone like Spock would have taken that chance, even if he were head over heels, because he would have foreseen the favoritism problems he did face later on. And if he were that annoyed by the idea of someone cheating in one of his tests (and it was clear Kirk did it in a prankish manner), I don't see how he'd be that much of a hypocrite re: his own improprieties. He's still mostly Vulcan.
That said, teacher/student affairs happen and at the end of the day, they're presented as two sensible characters, and it worked out ok. Maybe he waited until he was no longer her teacher to start it, maybe he got an OK from a supervisor beforehand.
It doesn't bother me, personally, but I do see where you're coming from.
I know they do, and not all places consider them a problem (one of my friends doing her mentor training at Cambridge was shocked to find whole varieties of policies on the subject) but I think they're still fairly controversial most places. Or I'm just a prude, also possible. ;)
But yes, definitely, on Spock's not generally being a hypocrite. Also, unless Orci and Kurzman have rewritten a whole lot of canon Vulcan culture, Spock's already engaged to somebody else. It's hard to find an angle where he doesn't come off badly in this situation!
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Anyone who believes that does not quite understand how 'the whole slash issue' works... ;)
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Yay! *waves pompoms* Best compliment ever!
I'm glad you think I didn't come off too mean to Uhura--I was really concerned about that, since I really do want to like her. I do get a little frustrated that, in so many modern films, women tend to be used as tools of a plot, rather than as fully developed characters in their own right. I mean, Uhura when from the stereotype of "the woman on the show (represent! w00t)" to the stereotype of "the smart girl who is the romantic interest." Sort of like Sam Carter on the Enterprise. Rawr.
I've always enjoyed how equal opportunity Kirk is. He wasn't made at Spock for any Vulcan thing; he was mad at Spock because he was being a jerk. (And wouldn't it be interesting if they showed Kirk getting it on with the green girl to show that Kirk is also equal opportunity the bedroom? Hm, I wonder who else in Star Trek is green?) But yeah, I've always had a soft spot for Kirk, and I loved how they showed him evolve into this really ( ... )
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-I loved that you pointed out how Spock and Kirk were meant to be pulled together because of all the shit that happened to them when they were younger-- I recall J.J. or someone equally important (whatchu know 'bout my memory it's impeccable) mentioning one of the biggest influences on reboot!Kirk and Spock's personalities were Lennon and McCartney. And if you know Lennon and McCartney like I do... You'd know they were as star-crossed as Kirk and Spock. So much sexual tension and deep mental understanding that goes beyond a usual romantic relationship. WELP there I go, getting all crazy because your review got me happy and excited ( ... )
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I've never heard it, but the comparison between Kirk and Spock and Lennon and McCartney is absolutely awesome. That sort of soul-deep understanding is rare. *sighs*
Man, I just had to share the love of the Plinkett reviews. The first one's I saw were the Star Wars ones, but the Trek ones are genius, particularly for XI. I just loved the fact that these reviews are geared towards more mainstream fans (i.e. guys, probably) and Plinkett still couldn't avoid mentioning the homoerotic tension in TPM and the not!gays in XI.
I do blame Plinkett for the manipulator!Uhura interpretation, though, darn him. I would have much preferred Uhura as gay!enabler, but that's just me. And yay Uhura/Scotty! They were so cute in Final Frontier. That would make me so happy.
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I think he started that sentence by calling Kirk Jim in part for Kirk's benefit. He seemed to have Kirk pegged in the previous "I'd cite regulation" scene, and he must have correctly assessed that a first-name in such situation would be appropriate and go well with Kirk. It felt like a concession of sorts. A "so, it turns out you are not as bad as I thought you were, and now we're about to die" thing.
Something that dents the previous theory slightly, that Uhura is looking past Spock's prickness and finding something attractive underneath and pursuing it, is Uhura's treatment of Kirk.
Idk, not all pricks are made equal before God. You don't want to see "hidden layers" in some of them. Kirk is a genius and charming, but he's also a bit of ( ... )
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And I really LIKE both of them and do not want them to be dicks. :(
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I understand completely. Tbh, I don't think someone like Spock would have taken that chance, even if he were head over heels, because he would have foreseen the favoritism problems he did face later on. And if he were that annoyed by the idea of someone cheating in one of his tests (and it was clear Kirk did it in a prankish manner), I don't see how he'd be that much of a hypocrite re: his own improprieties. He's still mostly Vulcan.
That said, teacher/student affairs happen and at the end of the day, they're presented as two sensible characters, and it worked out ok. Maybe he waited until he was no longer her teacher to start it, maybe he got an OK from a supervisor beforehand.
It doesn't bother me, personally, but I do see where you're coming from.
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But yes, definitely, on Spock's not generally being a hypocrite. Also, unless Orci and Kurzman have rewritten a whole lot of canon Vulcan culture, Spock's already engaged to somebody else. It's hard to find an angle where he doesn't come off badly in this situation!
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