Through a mirror, darkly

[danceswithwords]

LJ has eaten every comment I tried to make today up until an hour ago. Not just thrown the stupid database error that you can recover from by hitting the browser back button and trying to post the comment again; irrevocably eaten. NOT ON, LJ.

Let's see if it will let me post this.

Comments

[zandra_x]

He was using Kragen auto jacks to jack up the house.
Contractors just use heavier, bigger stuff 'cause they like to throw their money around. And yay! free floating asbestos.

[danceswithwords]

That was just mind-boggling. Never mind a contractor's license, common sense should have prevented that.

[laurashapiro]

That blog entry about TW is both hilarious and *dead on*. Except for one particular episode that you should see. But seriously: *dead on*.

Re the Master's current incarnation, my feeling is that Simm's reading works so well in part because it is such a clear demonstration of Ten's own mania, enthusiasm for humanity, and hubris. He's not the other side of the coin -- even that implies too much distance between them. He's not even Ten's dark mirror. He *is* Ten, just a different flavor of crazy.

[asta77]

I was nodding my head vigorously in agreement with the TW write up and the responses. I did like 'They Keep Killing Suzie', but the rest of the series (what I saw of it) was not good. And when will writers learn that drugging women and having sex with them is not funny, it's rape.

[danceswithwords]

Oh for crying out loud, did the Torchwood writers go to the SGA school of writing "wacky" "hijinks"?

[asta77]

Yep, they sure did. 'Wacky' hijinks, date rape, it's all the same to them. What perhaps made it worse on Torchwood is that the rapist in question is a series regular and one of the 'heroes'. Sigh.

[asta77]

(And is it even subtext at this point? Holy slash, batman!)

They spent two years being careful not to cross certain lines with Rose. Martha has spent most of the season running after the Doctor like a love sick puppy and he either doesn't notice or pretends not to. Then in one ep they confirm that Jack's in love with the Doctor and that there is some Master/Doctor business no one is aware of. And this is suppose to be a kids show? ::is very confused::

I still want to kick Daniel in the balls, but I'd give him an ice pack afterwards now. ;)

[danceswithwords]

I don't understand how this show is categorized as kids' anymore; the old show definitely had a fairly simple moral fairytale quality to it, and no more than PG-level violence (though it often dealt with pretty serious themes). But they are certainly bringing more sex into it at this point.

I still want to kick Daniel in the balls, but I'd give him an ice pack afterwards now.

This, I think, expresses it perfectly.

[vonniek]

Thanks for the link to that article on Torchwood, which made me laugh and laugh. The writer has it exactly. (I violently loathe Torchwood, for all the fondness I have for Captain Jack, the DW version. And the casting news makes me want to watch it even less.)

They really were very explicit in paralleling the Master with the Doctor, weren't they? All the things you mentioned, plus Lucy Saxon as a sort of a perverted version of a sycophantic companion, then both of them talking about running from Gallifrey, and the fact that Simm and Tennant are of a very similar physical type, which must have been a deliberate casting choice. There is a very pleasing elegance to the whole thing.

Unlike many people on my Flist, I enjoyed "Unending", modest as its ambition was, and I thought the Daniel/Vala scene in all its harshness was FANTASTIC. I mean, I still wanted to smack Daniel, but I could see his sheer terror behind the lashing-out, and the scene had the kind of electricity that I haven't seen on the show for a while.

[cofax7]

I had too much anger at Daniel on Vala's behalf to appreciate that scene. I really did want her to kick him hard, and only then have them get together. Because Daniel is an asshole, but he should be called on it, and he wasn't.

[danceswithwords]

I had a lot of fear, when they announced that Claudia Black was going to be a series regular, that in order to make Vala "worthy" of being on SG-1, the writers were going to make her suffer more than she already had. I was pleasantly surprised that they slid her onto the team more easily than they could have; they've always treated her past as something she had to atone for far more than what came across to me on the screen. But I think there's a part of me that saw that scene through that lens--that in order to be worthy of Daniel, the writers had to make her suffer one last time. It's not something I think fits well with the character development I've seen on the screen, but maybe I was less outraged by it because it didn't really surprise me that they'd put her through that final trial.

I would love for Daniel to have suffered more consequences for his behavior, though.

[danceswithwords]

All the things you mentioned, plus Lucy Saxon as a sort of a perverted version of a sycophantic companion

Yes, it was interesting that the Master also felt some sort of need for companionship, and made some form of the same attempt to ward off solitude.

I thought "Unending" was flawed, but I appreciated the idea, and mostly enjoyed it. I like the idea of the writers, knowing how much the team was the core of the story, pushing teaminess to such a drastic limit. And I especially liked that they ended the show on that note, rather than trying to go out in a blaze of action-adventure glory; the final scene in particular, as they set off through the gate again, made me all sniffly. And since fear of loss has been such a governing quality for Daniel, I'm really glad they tried to address it, even if they pushed it a little farther than it probably should have gone--it felt honest, at least, and totally in character, though if they'd had more time I would have liked to see Daniel pay a little more for his cruelty.

[katie_m]

Interestingly, it sounds like that scene was originally much milder, and was changed on MS and CB's advice. (Mild spoilers for the movies behind that, as well as MS being enormously dumb about The Shroud. Oh, MS. You are so wrong.)

MS: Yeah, that was something Rob -- I think it's OK at this point to sort of talk about. Rob, he wanted some sort of confrontation of sorts to take place. He had a written a particular version of that scene that wasn't what we did

[danceswithwords]

Thanks for the link; it's interesting to hear the backstory on that scene, and helps explain why it was so surprising (it wasn't the writers' first instincts, which are always to go for the safety). I'm glad they at least tried to address some of the underlying issues, because I don't think it would have been convincing to have them just fall into bed together. And then they overshot their mark, but hey.

As for MS's take on "The Shroud"... Well, he was right about it being really talky, I will give him that.

[asta77]

I agree with a lot of what Michael says here, largely because they are all points I've made in trying to rationalize the scene. It's interesting to note he talked about all this without seeing the final cut. If he had seen that he may have realized there is a difference between unpacking the baggage and throwing it at the other person. There are some great ideas there, but Daniel still comes off as too harsh.

[cofax7]

You know, I still don't think the business was that out of character for Daniel--I just want Vala to have beat him up a bit first.