That means he's come to the point before he sent Kyle back to conceive him; he doesn't exist yet.
Since I didn't get how that worked, I was all set to accept this, but: wasn't Kyle Reese sent back BY John Connor? I think there always was one. Unless you're sayiing that they haven't even met him yet; that they're not yet part of the greater resistance?
wasn't Kyle Reese sent back BY John Connor? I think there always was one.
He was, but I don't think it follows that there was always a John Connor, because what we've seen so far indicates that what they do in the present affects the future. Derek and Jessie came from different futures. My theory is that whatever happened in that basement, with John jumping forward, meant that in this particular future that exists now, he wasn't always around. He's just arrived on the scene. Whatever resistance Kyle and Derek and Alison are fighting for got its start without John Connor.
Someone did a flowchart last season, or before the hiatus this season, but it's clearly shot to hell.
Also, my crossover just got Jossed to hell, as well. ::ponders::
Wouldn't it be interesting if John jumped into a future in which, because John Connor doesn't exist, Skynet has had no reason to make a time machine that allows it to prevent him from existing? Which means John himself is ... what? He's acausal, or something, as if he stepped in from an alternate universe, except they don't do those here.
It's baffling.
I agree with life_on_queen that Sarah's willingness to leave the bubble made no sense to me. John loves Cameron, but he loves his mother as well: and I would have expected that he either try to keep her with him, or that she fight to pull him out. Not this willing abandonment, especially since she didn't know where he was going.
Wouldn't it be interesting if John jumped into a future in which, because John Connor doesn't exist, Skynet has had no reason to make a time machine that allows it to prevent him from existing? Which means John himself is ... what? He's acausal, or something, as if he stepped in from an alternate universe, except they don't do those here.
I think that as of right when John jumped, SkyNet wouldn't have invented the time machine yet, since John doesn't exist. But it might invent the time machine now that he's there, if he comes to their attention. Or maybe it wouldn't, because it learns he used it to jump to the future and fight them?
*pauses to stop feeling dizzy*
In any case, I think John is less alternate universe than outside of time itself.
I would have expected that he either try to keep her with him, or that she fight to pull him out. Not this willing abandonment, especially since she didn't know where he was going.I do think it's problematic, but I think it's important to remember that she's coming right off an experience
( ... )
After the jail break, Sarah observes that Cameron looks like hell, but the first thing John does is ask her if she's all right. And he's distraught when she's gone. (Her, not the body. She exists as that one collection of hardware and software, the chip, too.)We didn't actually see Cameron take any gunshots to the face, yet a sizable section of her 'flesh' is now missing, revealing the machine underneath. I think this was very deliberate on the part of the writers. John's reaction to seeing her like that was a telling moment for me. Up until then, I questioned who and what it was he loved (I don't know what else to call his feelings for her). Cameron, on the outside, is a pretty young girl and with the illusion of that it's easy to understand John's attraction. Yet, he sees the facade stripped away and his feelings are unchanged. To him, Cameron is a person and he loves her nuts, bolts, and all
( ... )
And does Cameron have Alison's memories of a relationship with a young John Conner?
No, she wouldn't, because Cameron is from a previous future, in which John lived through J-day. Unless all timelines have always resulted in John jumping past Skynet's attack, which seems unlikely. Esp. since the timeline they've moved into is one in which nobody knows who John is.
So Cameron's memories, assuming they haven't changed since she jumped forward, are that grownup!John reprogrammed her and sent her into the past to protect himself, and now she's back in the future and here's young!John again and no grownup!John atall.
We didn't actually see Cameron take any gunshots to the face, yet a sizable section of her 'flesh' is now missing, revealing the machine underneath. I think this was very deliberate on the part of the writers. John's reaction to seeing her like that was a telling moment for me.
Yeah, I think that was definitely a deliberate choice. I was also struck by how much the jail break scene echoed Arnold breaking Sarah out of the asylum in the second movie.
I think I agree with cofax7 that Cameron wouldn't have any memories she didn't already have after she jumped ahead again in time, even if, in this future, John and Alison have a relationship. The Alison she was created from came from a different past. *takes an aspirin*
I, too, am praying and begging to the Gods and Goddesses that we get another season of T:TSSC. I am trying to work my mind around the time travel issues and how it affects the past and future but, like you, it all hurts my brain!
If the show did not get renewed ::sobs:: I think I could be satisfied with that episode being a series closer. Questions are still unanswered and everyone's story is still in flux, but it has a nice sense of 'this chapter has come to a close and another begins'. So, if there is no more series, I will lobby like hell for TV movie instalments of what was next to come.
I get the depressing sense that its fate is somewhat tied to Dollhouse, too--as in, FOX might want a Friday sci fi block. And, unfortunately, neither show is doing that well. We're in unknown territory when it comes to knowing how much executives weight DVD sales and fannish devotion now; it's more than it used to be, but it might not be enough.
On the other hand, I saw someone speculate somewhere that the jump to the future could position the show as a good entrypoint for people who see the movie and want to check out the show. Who knows how the movie plays into it. I do think the fact that there is a separate (and vastly more successful) movie piece of the franchise makes it less likely for TV movies to get made, though.
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Since I didn't get how that worked, I was all set to accept this, but: wasn't Kyle Reese sent back BY John Connor? I think there always was one. Unless you're sayiing that they haven't even met him yet; that they're not yet part of the greater resistance?
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He was, but I don't think it follows that there was always a John Connor, because what we've seen so far indicates that what they do in the present affects the future. Derek and Jessie came from different futures. My theory is that whatever happened in that basement, with John jumping forward, meant that in this particular future that exists now, he wasn't always around. He's just arrived on the scene. Whatever resistance Kyle and Derek and Alison are fighting for got its start without John Connor.
I think I need, like, a flowchart or something.
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Also, my crossover just got Jossed to hell, as well. ::ponders::
Wouldn't it be interesting if John jumped into a future in which, because John Connor doesn't exist, Skynet has had no reason to make a time machine that allows it to prevent him from existing? Which means John himself is ... what? He's acausal, or something, as if he stepped in from an alternate universe, except they don't do those here.
It's baffling.
I agree with life_on_queen that Sarah's willingness to leave the bubble made no sense to me. John loves Cameron, but he loves his mother as well: and I would have expected that he either try to keep her with him, or that she fight to pull him out. Not this willing abandonment, especially since she didn't know where he was going.
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I think that as of right when John jumped, SkyNet wouldn't have invented the time machine yet, since John doesn't exist. But it might invent the time machine now that he's there, if he comes to their attention. Or maybe it wouldn't, because it learns he used it to jump to the future and fight them?
*pauses to stop feeling dizzy*
In any case, I think John is less alternate universe than outside of time itself.
I would have expected that he either try to keep her with him, or that she fight to pull him out. Not this willing abandonment, especially since she didn't know where he was going.I do think it's problematic, but I think it's important to remember that she's coming right off an experience ( ... )
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Also? Hi, you! I don't know what Cult of Done is, but it sounds like I need to find out immediately. I want to join!
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I really do not have the words to say how much I want another season of T:TSCC. Really don't.
Why does FOX end up with all of these awesome shows just so that it can cancel them?!
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No, she wouldn't, because Cameron is from a previous future, in which John lived through J-day. Unless all timelines have always resulted in John jumping past Skynet's attack, which seems unlikely. Esp. since the timeline they've moved into is one in which nobody knows who John is.
So Cameron's memories, assuming they haven't changed since she jumped forward, are that grownup!John reprogrammed her and sent her into the past to protect himself, and now she's back in the future and here's young!John again and no grownup!John atall.
... I have a headache, too.
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Yeah, I think that was definitely a deliberate choice. I was also struck by how much the jail break scene echoed Arnold breaking Sarah out of the asylum in the second movie.
I think I agree with cofax7 that Cameron wouldn't have any memories she didn't already have after she jumped ahead again in time, even if, in this future, John and Alison have a relationship. The Alison she was created from came from a different past. *takes an aspirin*
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If the show did not get renewed ::sobs:: I think I could be satisfied with that episode being a series closer. Questions are still unanswered and everyone's story is still in flux, but it has a nice sense of 'this chapter has come to a close and another begins'. So, if there is no more series, I will lobby like hell for TV movie instalments of what was next to come.
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On the other hand, I saw someone speculate somewhere that the jump to the future could position the show as a good entrypoint for people who see the movie and want to check out the show. Who knows how the movie plays into it. I do think the fact that there is a separate (and vastly more successful) movie piece of the franchise makes it less likely for TV movies to get made, though.
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