Concerning the Mass

May 28, 2005 12:19

Well, I'm just transferring this mini-debate over to my journal since Miriam seems to freak out every time I mention this subject in her journal...

Let's see here:

I said:
They can't understand the importance of the Mass if it looks like a Protestant worship service... Change the Mass back to the Catholic Mass and people will go.

God Bless! ( Read more... )

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heyyoimjohnny May 28 2005, 22:14:09 UTC
You're saying that a Mass said in the vernacular is less clear and understandable than one said in a dead language? Please be specific on these "guestures" that are missing and make the Norvus Ordo untangible.

Also, the Norvus Ordo Mass is not a protestant service. It is Eucharist centered. Saying the Mass in the vernacular doesn't make it invalid. The faithful have every reason to go for this reason!

The fact that the truths of the Church aren't being well-taught by the priests is not the cause of the Mass. If that's the case, how can you explain the strong Orthodoxy of, say, diocese in the Nebraska area?

God Bless you, too. :)

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heyyoimjohnny June 4 2005, 13:25:06 UTC
I'm starting the new post, as you suggested... it was getting kind of annoying trying to find posts with it being so skinny. Anyways ( ... )

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dabaq June 4 2005, 17:13:46 UTC
First of all, the CCC is a bunch of garbage, as heretical or more heretical than Vatican II. Therefore, I do not consider it a source worthy of note or respect.

No bishop or council can be infallible without the Pope's express statement that it is. Perhaps so as to clear this up, I'll quote the First Vatican Council, an infallible council, which dealt with this very issue. Firstly, this is the time and only time in which Church teaching is extraordinary magisterium and thus infallible by the very act:

9. Therefore, faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the Christian faith, to the glory of God our savior, for the exaltation of the Catholic religion and for the salvation of the Christian people, with the approval of the Sacred Council, we teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that when the Roman Pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or ( ... )

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Nada heyyoimjohnny June 5 2005, 04:23:42 UTC
First of all, the CCC is a bunch of garbage, as heretical or more heretical than Vatican II. Therefore, I do not consider it a source worthy of note or respect.

What gives you the authority to deem it as such?

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Re: Nada dabaq June 5 2005, 19:26:54 UTC
As previously explained, I have the authority of one thousand saints, 2 millenium of Councils, and the perennial teaching of the Church backing me up. I think that's pretty good, don't you?

God Bless!

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Re: Nada heyyoimjohnny June 5 2005, 20:37:20 UTC
This is where we part ways, David. You've dug a hole I do not think I can fill. You won't allow me to argue with the basic teachings of the Church, and have such a twisted view of them, it boggles my mind. Oh, I'm sure you'll have your history and Church councils and Popes and saints to convince me, but the truth is, they were members of the same Church I am. The authority that exists in Pope Benedict XVI and the college of Bishops is the one I follow. You are a better debater than I, and so I haven't been able to convince you of the truth, but know that whatever words you throw my way will never phase me; I will always stand by my Church, even to death. So goodbye, and Godbless.

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Re: Nada dabaq June 5 2005, 21:30:26 UTC
You won't allow me to argue with the basic teachings of the Church

You can't argue with the Church...

and have such a twisted view of them

Interesting; you have to be able to support that claim, or otherwise you are falling into an ad hominum fallacy.

The authority that exists in Pope Benedict XVI and the college of Bishops is the one I follow.

It is the same authority that I follow, although I would distinguish between the Pope and his College since only the Pope and the bishop of this diocese has jurisdiction over me. Anyway, yes, I follow any authoritative thing they present to me; if I am presented something non-authoritative which is detrimental to the Faith, then I must do as St. Robert Bellarmine and St. Paul say to do.

I will always stand by my Church, even to death.

I hope you are standing by the Church; make sure you are not following unwittingly, however, a church not founded by Christ. I am willing to and will probably die for my stance with the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

God Bless!

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