Cafeteria catholicism and the spirituality of obedience

[ng_nighthawk]

This is an essay on the ideal of the spirituality of obedience. This, I believe, is primarily a Catholic thing in Christianity, although it is also found in Buddhism and in Hinduism (at least, in the spiritual aspects of yoga instruction). I'd be interested in protestant members commenting on whether this idea exists as a valued part of

Comments

[drdeleto]

Fantastic post, Neal. The Eastern spiritual traditions definitely have a lot of practical stuff to teach us here... or, rather, to remind us of, since obedience used to be a larger part of Western culture. Your distinction between obedience and submission is very valuable, too

[ng_nighthawk]

"I don't know that I completely agree that obedience requires you to disagree with the authority; I think it's more accurate to say that it is most active at those junctures where there is disagreement. But obedience doesn't only work when it overrides conflict; it also works to solve directionlessness or apathy."

I see where you're going, but here was my trouble with that formulation: how do you distinguish between that and a sort of laziness: "Eh, I don't care. Sure, whatever you say. Good enough for me." what is the practice of obedience if you are apathetic toward an issue? It seems to me that what would be required would be an examination of the issue to see if you agree, before simply agreeing. What do you think?

[drdeleto]

Well, for one thing, not everything you might be ordered to do will be worthy of close examination. Did Padre Pio have to agonize over whether he wanted to work in the garden or in the kitchen before obeying his abbot and going to the garden? Probably not. But was he still practicing obedience? Of course. At least, I think he was

[ng_nighthawk]

I failed to distinguish these little choices from big choices. Good point. Here's my point, however: the obedience in these instances doesn't have to be struggled with. It's easy to accept this instruction, all it takes is getting into the habit. However, I'm not sure I disagree with what you're saying, because it is that habit that, like the habit of mass or the habit of prayer, becomes most meaningful over many thousands of repititions

By the way....

[drdeleto]

Just re-read the title of the post after reading the post itself. What's the meaning of the reference to "Cafeteria Catholicism"? I mean, I can certainly extrapolate some connections on the subject, but you didn't address it directly (unless I missed something).

Re: By the way....

[ng_nighthawk]

Check Fufachew's late post in my thread "Got Jesus?"

I dont meet the prereqs for this class I dont think.

[fufachew]

I think where I ist in my belief that most folks are cafeteria catholics can be pulled out of this missive from Neal - obedience requires that orders are given. Obedience requires that orders are given AND understood. Obedience to the bigger questions - the ones that we *should* ponder or else be labeled lazy or submissive (and rightly so) - can only be done if one understands the question. I posit that most folks dont have a spiritual clue. I sure didnt in my catholic upbringing - at least until highschool where I had some formal religious education. I doubt very many garden variety catholics do. This general apathy to avoiding catholic obediance or rebelling against catholic obedience is forged with the American desire to question authoirty and tempered with the general American desire to maintain our freedoms. Hell, we shout when airport authorities try to check our shoes for bombs

Re: I dont meet the prereqs for this class I dont think.

[ng_nighthawk]

Trust: Here's the tricky part, and I'm certain it will get me screamed at. But my experience has been that my most artistic and spiritual experiences have been moments of extreme vulnerability. I think this is the point or goal of the path of obedience: total, unconditional trust. Not trust that comes because someone deserves it. Trust simply because you trust God. And this is not to say that bad things won't happen to you because of this trust. They will. But when you trust in this way, you reach a point of acceptance--that you trust that getting gassed in a "shower" was exactly what was planned for you, and it is for the best. That losing your child in a fire was exactly what needed to happen for all sorts of reasons you don't understand

Re: I dont meet the prereqs for this class I dont think.

[fufachew]

I agree with you on the vulnerability issue. After all, we dont question God when we get a raise at work, but when our house burns down. But there are 2 fine lines you are walking with this trust set-up

Re: I dont meet the prereqs for this class I dont think.

[ng_nighthawk]

The Pope says, "Wheeze. Cough. Gasp."

Wow, that was low. But it was so easy. . .

Yes, I'm going to hell. But I'll make a more thoughtful response later. :)