Comments | cupidsbow: in the eye of the beholder

cupidsbow

in the eye of the beholder

Jul 21, 2010 17:02

I'm not really 'in' Supernatural fandom, in that I'm just reading a small subset of the fic, and not really reading or thinking about meta. But even so, I keep stumbling across bitter author's notes, so I can't help but be aware of a general fannish feeling, which goes something like: "OMG! My fannish love is dead. Everyone died in Season 5! Woe ( Read more... )

torchwood, supernatural, meta

Comments 20

laughingacademy July 21 2010, 12:26:54 UTC

I thought that the status of Sam was still uncertain -- he's around, clearly, but is he alive (and is he really him)?

Having said that, oh my god, so much cheerier than CoE.

cupidsbow July 21 2010, 13:14:21 UTC

Well, he's listed as being in S6, and there's enough ambiguity in the final ep of S5 that it could go either way, which means not actually definitively dead. I'd call it a business as usual cliffhanger, right?

But yes, I'd heard so much about how emo SPN was, and if I'd seen it earlier, I might have agreed. But after CoE, I found SPN pretty damn cheery, and occasionally even outright droll!

laughingacademy July 21 2010, 13:57:25 UTC

Don't get me wrong, SPN is wayyyyyy emo, often anvilicious, and has gender issues liek whoa, but at least when bad things happen to the characters it makes sense in terms of plot and character. Also, the creators/producers of SPN seem much less openly contemptuous of segments of their fandom than certain people I can name. (There's a reason I'm so fond of this particular LJ icon.)

cupidsbow July 21 2010, 14:16:56 UTC

Your icon is adorable. ;)

Also, SPN is full of race fail as well as gender fail. That's pretty much why I can't get very hardcore about it.

I recently discovered a show called Community, which is surprisingly non-faily, not only with gender and race, but disability too. It's still queer faily, though, at a fairly typical level, but I have hopes it will improve.

I loathed the first two eps, because I hated the main character, but then I fell in love with it. I wish more shows had casts like that.

Thread 6

lefaym July 21 2010, 13:21:43 UTC

I'm not in SPN at all (I've never seen the show), but I CoE has definitely changed the way I view TV, and I think it's a negative change.

I don't let myself love shows in the same way anymore. Even while watching the happiest shows, I'm always scared -- not the good sort of scared that occurs as the result of good writing, just the sort of scared that means you don't trust the writing, even if it is really good.

The moment I become attached to a character, I start assuming that they're going to die, especially if they're queer -- either that, or they'll end up bereaved. (To be fair, this is not a trend that CoE was responsible for -- it's just that I have so little faith that ANY show aimed at a mainstream audience can break this trend after CoE.)

cupidsbow July 21 2010, 13:31:36 UTC

Word. It's what I call the head-inna-jar syndrome: it says everything there is to say about how fucked up our stories are, that the most gloriously sexual fictional character ever presented on TV is fated to end up without a body, as nothing but a giant head.

It's like the entirety of the church's insidious mind/body doctrine on sin wrapped up and presented to us unironically in a shiny, shiny evil bow.

That's when we should have known that everyone queer would die or be damned.

lefaym July 21 2010, 13:37:03 UTC

Actually, I always assumed that the Face of Boe DID have a sex life -- after all, he does get pregnant at some point. In general though... queer characters in the Whoniverse really don't get much of a break. It made me really sad today when I realised that Gridlock is the only episode of the Whoniverse in which any queer characters get a happy ending.

(And yes, I know that it's shit for a lot of characters in the Whoniverse, but seriously -- there are still LOTS of examples of straight characters who get happy endings.)

(The comment has been removed)

cupidsbow July 21 2010, 14:21:02 UTC

For me, it's all about how the deaths are handled on the show. I'm usually fine with it; but every now and again, it's down with so little respect for story or character that it makes me really angry.

I think due South is my favourite magic realism show. It was spectacularly good at it!

lonelywalker July 21 2010, 16:34:38 UTC

Oh, CoE. Beautiful, beautiful show. My only complaint with it was that it had to pull a not-quite-horrific solution out of its ass at the end, and didn't go far enough. Which is possibly why I wished Cas and Bobby had stayed dead at the end of S4. Even if they were to show up again in S5, it would have made the ending of S4 so much more... punchier?

*should probably go watch clowns or something*

cupidsbow July 22 2010, 02:07:49 UTC

I know what you mean, and I agree that CoE didn't go far enough.

I mourn for what could have been: a plot in which Ianto still died, but for a reason other than to make Jack sad. And Rupesh didn't die until part 4, when his betrayal would really hurt. And the child Jack kills, is his own and not his grandchild.

Grand tragedy, in other words.

Now that? I would totally have paid.

arabia764 July 21 2010, 19:55:49 UTC

You know I love me some Sam and Dean but... CoD had a damned good plot, was deeply, deeply thought provoking, incredibly moving, kept you on the edge of your seat, totally surprised you, made sense and was incredibly good tv.

You can't say many of those things about SPN.

cupidsbow July 22 2010, 01:59:02 UTC

I agree with you about SPN.

CoE, though? Our mileage varies a lot. I agree it surprised me, and it did provoke thought. However, after all that thought, I found the plot holes and inconsistencies not worth the effort. It's deeply and fundamentally flawed TV, IMO.

I'm really glad you liked it though.