I've just been talking to cloudlessclimes about Lotrips stories we loved back in the day, and it reminded me of a topic I wanted to discuss with you all: fannish touchstone stories
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I think one factor that tends to increase the likelihood that a fic will become a Touchstone is that it's posted relatively early in the life of the fandom. Now, this isn't always true -- for example, Ces's Victors was posted in (I think) the fourth year of SGA fandom -- but I think you'll find the Touchstones are weighted toward the first couple of years, and it's not just that later stories don't have the same amount of time to collect buzz
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posted relatively early in the life of the fandom and Touchstones both reflect the fannish zeitgeist and help create it are points that MMWD agrees with below, so I think you're definitely onto something.
I find the first point particularly interesting -- I wonder if that is true of the formation of "canons" as a general rule. I'm thinking yes. But. As you say, there can be exceptions, so what is it that makes a story exceptional? Is it the zeitgeist?
You know, the older I get, the more respect I have for the zeitgeist (or Bell Weathers, if you prefer). But it also scares me. I know we can't control the way our stories are received, but its been borne home to me over and over that I get freaked out by popularity, especially when it rides the zeitgeist. It's like it's not about the story or author at all anymore. And yet the author and story bear all the weight of that moment's cultural expectation and baggage. *shivers*
I am almost always out of step with the zeitgeistI find this very interesting: a lot of my favourite stories
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I go back and forth about whether I believe in bellwether theory (i.e., it's the individuals who make the zeitgeist, not the other way around). I do think that certain individuals are more likely to create a Touchstone, and that's it's a combination of personality and talent that makes a person a bellwether. But I don't think that's the whole story. There's also something about the story itself -- it has to have a fresh idea, but not too fresh, and it has to be deeply from the heart -- indulgent, even -- but still not too purple for the current taste (whatever that is).
I can understand being freaked out by the tide of the zeitgeist -- it's a very strange and headless beast. Fortunately, it's not something I have personal experience with.
a lot of my favourites of the stories I've written are the least favouredNow this is fascinating to me. It's not true of my own work, although I am often surprised by feedback -- things I think of as "very minor works" can get as much feedback as things I poured my heart into and worked
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*nods* I agree with your common elements. And I shall now ponder the exceptions to the rules, as I find them very interesting.
I also think you're right about my stories, and you know, I think I did that on purpose. In hindsight, there's a clear pattern. When something gets too popular, I stop writing it. Too much popularity scares me, and I'm not sure why. I think it must be the loss of control -- the story is no longer mine. And that's the lizard brain pure and simple, as with my logical brain, I think that loss of control is fundamental to the way literature works.
I also think FPF touchstones are a little different from RPF touchstones, but not in any way I know how to articulate.
Hmmm. Interesting. I think you're right, but I can't articulate it either. Perhaps its because the "canon" for RPF is so much more flexible -- maybe RPF stories define the edges, while FPF mine what's already there and turn it into a fresh pattern.
Yes, I've heard of The End of the Road too, and would agree about its status. I tried to read it several times and couldn't, but assumed it was because I wasn't invested enough in the fandom. And now I'm wondering just how many touchstone stories are like that! Known by people, but not necessarily read.
I remember very vividly one of the HP stories you mention, btw. The Mirror of Maybe. Even as a WiP, I can see why it had the impact it did -- such a great premise and it really drew me in. The unfinished ending actually made me want to write HP too (briefly). So maybe that's another factor -- some touchstone stories inspire.
I wouldn't call talking about X-factor or lack thereof as critique, since X-factor doesn't have anything to do with quality.
Me = choir. But we've both been around the block often enough to know that even a perceived snub can start a wanktacular wankfest. My offer was an attempt to give people options if they don't want to risk teh wank, but still want to say something about the negative argument. I thought MMWD made some good points about why stories don't crossover using mine as an example, and I can see why she might hesitate to say those things about someone else's work.
Yeah, you MMWD and crysothemis's lists all overlap pretty strongly, and I agree with your elements
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I wish I could give you links to the Lotrips stories, as they were two of the most consistently recced Orlijah stories, and for good reason. In fact, Clue was my entrypoint story, along with "Deconstructing Legolas" by Lemur. But sadly, part of the reason we were discussing them is because they have disappeared. :(
If you are looking for Orlijah, go to my rec comm lotr_squee. There's a huge number of recs there, and at least some should still work
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I find the first point particularly interesting -- I wonder if that is true of the formation of "canons" as a general rule. I'm thinking yes. But. As you say, there can be exceptions, so what is it that makes a story exceptional? Is it the zeitgeist?
You know, the older I get, the more respect I have for the zeitgeist (or Bell Weathers, if you prefer). But it also scares me. I know we can't control the way our stories are received, but its been borne home to me over and over that I get freaked out by popularity, especially when it rides the zeitgeist. It's like it's not about the story or author at all anymore. And yet the author and story bear all the weight of that moment's cultural expectation and baggage. *shivers*
I am almost always out of step with the zeitgeistI find this very interesting: a lot of my favourite stories ( ... )
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I can understand being freaked out by the tide of the zeitgeist -- it's a very strange and headless beast. Fortunately, it's not something I have personal experience with.
a lot of my favourites of the stories I've written are the least favouredNow this is fascinating to me. It's not true of my own work, although I am often surprised by feedback -- things I think of as "very minor works" can get as much feedback as things I poured my heart into and worked ( ... )
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
I also think you're right about my stories, and you know, I think I did that on purpose. In hindsight, there's a clear pattern. When something gets too popular, I stop writing it. Too much popularity scares me, and I'm not sure why. I think it must be the loss of control -- the story is no longer mine. And that's the lizard brain pure and simple, as with my logical brain, I think that loss of control is fundamental to the way literature works.
I also think FPF touchstones are a little different from RPF touchstones, but not in any way I know how to articulate.
Hmmm. Interesting. I think you're right, but I can't articulate it either. Perhaps its because the "canon" for RPF is so much more flexible -- maybe RPF stories define the edges, while FPF mine what's already there and turn it into a fresh pattern.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
I remember very vividly one of the HP stories you mention, btw. The Mirror of Maybe. Even as a WiP, I can see why it had the impact it did -- such a great premise and it really drew me in. The unfinished ending actually made me want to write HP too (briefly). So maybe that's another factor -- some touchstone stories inspire.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Me = choir. But we've both been around the block often enough to know that even a perceived snub can start a wanktacular wankfest. My offer was an attempt to give people options if they don't want to risk teh wank, but still want to say something about the negative argument. I thought MMWD made some good points about why stories don't crossover using mine as an example, and I can see why she might hesitate to say those things about someone else's work.
Yeah, you MMWD and crysothemis's lists all overlap pretty strongly, and I agree with your elements ( ... )
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
If you are looking for Orlijah, go to my rec comm lotr_squee. There's a huge number of recs there, and at least some should still work ( ... )
Reply
All of abundantlyqueer's fics are here with 'Clue' is top of the list: http://zoniduck.insanejournal.com/1183.html
Can I also rec a Zeke/Casey fic by princessofg Be Brave. Is very very good indeed. Have been reading it for years.
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