This made me snicker

[craobhruadh]

I got this from slashdot, but a top Vatican official has effectively attacked the creationists and intelligent design promoters in the U.S.

From the article:

"The fundamentalists want to give a scientific meaning to words that had no scientific aim," he said at a Vatican press conference. He said the real message in Genesis was that "the universe

Comments

[avalonxq]

Yes. Religious types like me are clearly devoid of sense.
Maybe you can be the one to talk some sense into me? I can offer you some time. Since you're clearly much more schooled in these matters than I, you can sit down and get the clear and obvious truth of your position into my thick head.

[craobhruadh]

It depends, are you a religious fundamentalist, literal interpretation of the bible, "Darwin is the anti-christ" kind of person who cannot think for youself? If this is the case, though I never too you for one, yes you would fall into what I described as "devoid of sense."

If, however, you are just a normal Christian who hasn't forgotten how to use your brain, then I wouldn't call you "devoid of sense." Don't worry, I know better than to judge an entire group by the actions of a few (hence why I'm not one of those calling for us to nuke the middle east).

I don't think being christian has, nor should it have, any basis on how "devoid of sense" one is. However, it just so happens that most of the creationists, also known as "intelligent design proponents" that I openly poke fun at, all happen to be pretty extreme christians.

[avalonxq]

I'm a religious fundamentalist, literal interpretation of the Bible, "Darwin was wrong and in fact no reasonable scientist takes his theory seriously" kind of person. I think for myself constantly. And I don't see what my religious position has to do with my view on origins as a scientific matter; I consider the two discussions to be pretty much distinct.
So, tell you what, rather than going for some sort of litmus test, why don't you actually try to rise to my challenge? If you think your view is obvious, gather the evidence that supports your claim and present this evidence to me. I hold a degree in physics and mathematics from a prominant university; I'm generally recognized at the law school as being both sharp and a critical thinker. I understand your views make it hard for you to accept that someone could hold a contrary view, so I'd like to understand your clear (and in my opinion, probably ignorant) contempt. Show me.

[zero_the_fool]

I definitely don't want to get embroiled in this mess, so understand that my questions are questions and not implicit statements.

That said, out of curiousity, could you elaborate on what you mean by "I don't see what my religious position has to do with my view on origins as a scientific matter; I consider the two discussions to be pretty much distinct?"

As a Biblical literalist, I would assume that you have certain beliefs about things like, say, the order that various things came into existence. Most scientific theories that I am aware of do not assign the same order of existence to these items as a literal Biblical interpretation would. This seems like a difference of opinion that would cause these viewpoints to come into contention.

[avalonxq]

I'll also point out that Cardinal Poupard attended two seminaries, then got a doctorate in theology and history from La Sorbonne. Translation? Zero scientific credentials. Good thing he has "sense".

[craobhruadh]

I never knew actual scientific credentials were necessary for even a general understanding of both creationism and the theory of education. I don't have any degrees in evolutionary biology, and I don't think you have one either, but I'm willing to bet both of us know exactly what it is and can freely compare it with creationism.

[avalonxq]

First of all, compare apples to apples. We can discuss a creationist theory and a randomist theory. Or we can discuss a design mechanism and a natural selection mechanism. But you clearly don't even have a very good view of what relates to what.
The problem is, I'm betting you know very little about any of these things. You just think you know better, because you think you're backed by better experts. Nice job, Bellarmine.

[craobhruadh]

...I was under the impression that we were discussing the necessary scientific credentials to have any bearing on this debate?

[avalonxq]

... still waiting.