Comments | coraldawn: Hephaistion, the "persecuted outsider"

coraldawn

Hephaistion, the "persecuted outsider" - where and how?

Sep 01, 2006 15:03

In many fan-inspired stories, Hephaistion is the persecuted outsider, the neglected loyal friend, the lonely steadfast lover whose friend Alexander is happy with conquests, Bagoas, Rhoxane, etc.

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Comments 8

ok... parisad September 4 2006, 13:58:07 UTC

this is the THIRD time that I try to comment and my computer deletes the message...#___ ( ... )

Re: ok... coraldawn September 4 2006, 18:40:06 UTC

Hi Parisad! Sorry to hear about your troubles sending this comment through!

Yes, indeed, I finally solved the mystery of where fanfic writers were getting their ideas of Hephaistion being jealous, neglected, quiet and always-an-outsider. It was really puzzling me because the original sources certainly don't give that impression. In fact, dear historical Hephaistion seems quite arrogant and very powerful. Able to bring down super powerful figures like Philotas - this man would be jealous of a Bactrian woman? Or a Persian eunuch? Oh my! I finally realized that Stone's film and Renault's trilogy give this impression. And many fanfic writers get almost all their information from these two fictional pieces of work.

Okay, so now when I see yet another piece of work where Hephaistion is completely out-of-historical character, I will nod and say, ah... Renault-inspired fanfic. Or Stone-inspired fanfic. Nothing to do with the real person!

Re: ok... parisad September 4 2006, 19:32:40 UTC

Little "confidence"...Personally. I think that the historical Hephaestion could have been a little arrogant and spoilt: yes, ancient historians didn't know him and courtiers were surely jelaous of him, but some episode (namely, the quarrels with Heumenes) seems to suggest that he could have been, definitively, a little spoilt and arrogant: and it's difficult not to be spoilt when you have been the King's beloved since your boyhood...;0)

Re: ok... coraldawn September 5 2006, 03:27:24 UTC

Of course, when the most powerful man in the world, the King in three continents, loves you as much as himself and more than any other in the world, and has done so since boyhood, it would be only logical that you'd have a huge ego. It's actually a little funny to imagine such a man crying quietly in a corner because the King married some Bactrian woman. Or took a Persian eunuch to bed. He probably had an impressive harem of his own!

selket56 September 19 2006, 19:29:06 UTC

I just saw your post. I don't think Hephaistion was the persecuted outsider at all. I just can't see Alexander putting someone he would need to watch out for or over into such a powerful position. Someone who had the role Hephaisiton played, realistically, not the Stone or Internet or Heckels' or other historian's versions, would have been a very secure individual, and not allow themselves to be put in a position where they would have been persecuted. I think due to the various political eras various historians, Plutarch, Arrian, etc., wrote their histories in we have ended up with a much distorted view of the man. I think he was probably regarded in a light somewhat, although different to Alexander, as it would have been clear to any idiot, Macedonian or Persian or otherwise, even if they disliked the man, he was powerful and well aware of it. No doubt he had his followers who would do anything for him, i.e. the story of he and Krateros followers dividing against one another in India, you know the one I'm referring to ( ... )

coraldawn September 20 2006, 18:31:14 UTC

Selket, Thanks for those very thought-provoking comments. I totally agree with you about the assessment of the historical Hephaistion's character. And yes, I too believe that in his lifetime, he was regarded in a light similar to Alexander. He was most likely EXTREMELY powerful. And was there a single saint in that entire blood-thirsty, sword-wielding, slave-owning, macho bunch? Hey, if I met even Aristotle today, I would punch his nose for having such weird views of women and slaves! Having read your stories, you are one of those authors who actually do write about the historical figure. Interpretations of the actual hitorical figure may differ some, since we don't have too much information about him. Did he really like chicken better or fish? Did he prefer peace and building bridges to war? Was he quarrelsome or laid-back? But those are quite different from this picture of a quiet, in-the-background, neglected lover (in favor of Roxane and Bagoas) that I seem to see in many stories. And recently, a light bulb went off inside my head ( ... )

rosethorne_brat August 22 2007, 12:42:16 UTC

it is all oliver stone and jared leto's fault. jared is the first person to really represent hephaistion in modern film. and even if people start to read ancient texts and reliable REAL history, they can't shake the image of jared being all dolled up and pretty and being replaced by a man who is more...well...manly O_o

honestly speaking though, i actually prefer fanfiction over historical fiction because like i said, it is HARD to erase jared's face from one's mind. historical fiction tends to make hephaistion as the "top", which he probably really was, in contrast to the submissive hephaistion that fanfiction often presents. but, if you have colin farrell and jared leto in your mind's eye while reading the fics, it is easier to imagine phai as the jealous, submissive one than the spoilt and egotistical macho man. :)

Not sure if it's appropriate for me to comment... anonymous May 14 2008, 08:17:48 UTC

But I will anyway ( ... )