SCC: Born to Run -- now with actual discussion!

[cofax7]

Some of this is scavenged from comments in various places, if it looks like I'm repeating myself.

Comments

[cryptoxin]

I didn't mind them jumping forward in time, but -- when John Henry/Cameron or whatever is using Cromartie's body jumped forward, they landed in a future where John Connor was leading the resistance. When Weaver & John Connor jump forward to follow them, they create a new future where John Connor never led the resistance because he disappears from the timeline when he jumps. So the two jumps were into two different timelines, and -- okay, this is where my head starts to hurt.

[cofax7]

this is where my head starts to hurt

I just love the possibility that John has no father in this new timeline. Kyle hasn't gone back in time! John can't exist! Except there he is! Fascinating.

[cryptoxin]

Kyle hasn't gone back in time! John can't exist!

Yeah, that's where I really need to reach for the aspirin!

I'm also really intrigued by the idea of Sarah without John to protect -- what she might learn about herself, who she might become.

[buymeaclue]

It's interesting to read people interpreting the last scene that way. I took the "My brother just came back" bit to mean that Kyle had just come back from the past. Which--I have no idea whether that's anything like correct and on seeing these other theories, I can see how they would make at least as much sense...but until I saw them, these other possibilities never even occurred to me.

[spectralbovine]

It also makes things too easy to write your way out of a problem if you can just jump them through time to avoid it.
I can see that. Although I just feel like they're not doing that, that they're using the time travel to tell the story rather than as a crutch.

Not to mention the somewhat egregious resurrection of Derek Reese (okay, not literally, but still!)
But it makes it even more fucked-up for John, KNOWING he's going to die. Although, who knows, since there have been so many alternate futures, this Derek might get to stay and live.

[We shall avoid discussing the meta implications of BAG getting a pilot for next year.]
There are none. If the show's renewed, he sticks with it, and the other pilot recasts.

I've read JF's justification
Where?

And yes to everything else!

[cofax7]

If the show's renewed, he sticks with it, and the other pilot recasts.

So is there actually a chance? I thought there was basically no chance.

But that's good to hear, that he would stay with SCC if it comes back. I figured he might go recurring.

Where?

I saw a copy in the comments on life_on_queen's post. She hated the last five minutes and someone copied in JF's blog post about Sarah & mortality.

[spectralbovine]

So is there actually a chance? I thought there was basically no chance.
I've received 70-30 odds against renewal. Fox does like the show.

She hated the last five minutes and someone copied in JF's blog post about Sarah & mortality.
Oh, that. She was responding to me! I thought you meant he wrote something after the finale; that article was in Wired earlier.

[coalescent]

It strikes me that aside from anything else, the ending is a very neat repositioning of the show to potentially make it more attractive to people coming out of Terminator: Salvation who are expecting Future War.

[katie_m]

Yeah, I agree with you about Sarah letting John go. But oh well. I'm willing to roll with it because I had OMG AWESOME running through my head at the time and it overrode any strongly critical feelings.

Because nobody is indispensable. Everyone is important and contributes: but nobody is indispensable. It's something both Skynet and the Connors need to learn.

I think this is why I fell so strongly on the "it's a future where John isn't the be-all and end-all!" side of interpretation of that last scene (though he could certainly end up being important). I've wanted the show to go there for a long time, so I was primed to see it when it happened.

Wouldn't it be interesting if John jumped into a future in which, because John Connor doesn't exist, Skynet has had no reason to make a time machine that allows it to prevent him from existing?Hee, I know, right? I was just thinking that; what if this Skynet isn't so obsessed with "if I can just kill the one correct person..." John's gonna feel pretty stupid being stuck in a post-

[cofax7]

I've wanted the show to go there for a long time, so I was primed to see it when it happened.

You know, I think the show has been going there all this time. Think about how many times they've tried to prevent the creation of Skynet, and yet it always happens. Skynet doesn't come from one particular place, like Miles Dyson's head: it's just that it's time for a real artificial intelligence to evolve. Similarly, if John Connor isn't born, someone else will step up. Someone will always step up, and every iteration it may be someone else, but someone will always be there to fight Skynet. It's like the whole show is an argument against the Great Man theory of history.

Which makes the television show entirely antithetical to the upcoming movie. I love it, and I simultaneously hope nobody at the network notices. *g*

"Oh, that's, um, that's my Furby."

::cackles:: Oh, you funny! That should be in a quotedump.

[madripoor_rose]

You know, I think the show has been going there all this time. Think about how many times they've tried to prevent the creation of Skynet, and yet it always happens. Skynet doesn't come from one particular place, like Miles Dyson's head: it's just that it's time for a real artificial intelligence to evolve. Similarly, if John Connor isn't born, someone else will step up. Someone will always step up, and every iteration it may be someone else, but someone will always be there to fight Skynet. It's like the whole show is an argument against the Great Man theory of history.

I love this comment.

I think in T3, Arnie says Judgement Day is inevitable.

It also reminds me that one of the things that drove me nuts about the series is that the Connors didn't seem to be doing enough to prepare, just running and hiding and trusting that John Connor would save them, because he's the Chosen One. They should be gathering more allies.

[cofax7]

I think in T3, Arnie says Judgement Day is inevitable.

See, now, that I disagree with. I think the evolution of the AI is inevitable; but not that it will lead to armageddon. John Henry has learned something about the sanctity of human life, after all. (And he can roll a D20 to get him only 20s!)

They should be gathering more allies.

The problem there is the only allies I can think of would be lunatic crackpots or wingnut militia/White Power types, none of which seem the type Sarah would want to approach. Even if she thought she could get them to believe her. As she said to Ellison in her cell, every time she tried to tell the truth, she ended up in a psych ward. The only people she can trust are herself and her family. (And not even all of them: she certainly feels Derek betrayed that trust somehow.)

[cofax7]

WANT MORE SHOW!

Can I go to Hollywood and yell at someone?

[danceswithwords]

John thinks that, if she is, it's Cameron's fault; except it can't be, because Sarah died in the original timeline without any exposure to Cameron.

I don't think John so much thinks it's Cameron's fault as wants her to consider the possibility, as a way of undermining her confidence in her protective role so that she'll let him do what he wants.

Because nobody is indispensable. Everyone is important and contributes: but nobody is indispensable. It's something both Skynet and the Connors need to learn.

Love this.

[cofax7]

as a way of undermining her confidence in her protective role so that she'll let him do what he wants.

Good point.