Her Smoke Rose Up Forever

[coalescent]

I think I am jealous of anyone who was reading science fiction before 1976. [1]

I'm jealous because I wish I could have read the stories in Her Smoke Rose Up Forever without a legend leaning over my shoulder. It would have meant I could have read most of them twice: once before knowing that James Tiptree Jnr was Alice Sheldon, and once after. As

Comments

[communicator]

Glad you liked this collection, I think it's marvellous. So long since I've read it though - can you remind me what 'And I Awoke And Found Me' is about?

I think the point in 'Houston do you read' is that the women are assessing whether the men are capable of behaving non-destructively, and they end up concluding they aren't. But it isn't specified whether the women are right or wrong. My personal feeling is that the men are locked into destructive behaviour by the military culture that they are coming from and they can't break out of that stereotyped behaviour, even though their lives depend on it.

I also think the women's society is damaged by having only a small number of genotypes, which are endlessly repeated, and there is at least hope that the new DNA they get off the men might open up the society a bit.

[coalescent]

the women are assessing whether the men are capable of behaving non-destructively, and they end up concluding they aren't. But it isn't specified whether the women are right or wrong.

This would certainly explain how Dan and I could end up with such completely opposed readings. I can see how they could be wrong about men in general--if they cloned new men using those sperm, for instance--but I think about those three astronauts (and by extension what they stand for) they're fairly clearly right.

And I agree with your point about genetic diversity, although it's a small-population effect, not a one-gender effect specifically.

There's some discussion of 'And I Awoke' here.

[coalescent]

One-gender

Er, one sex. Obviously.

[immortalradical]

but I think about those three astronauts (and by extension what they stand for) they're fairly clearly right.

And therefore it's right to force them to their deaths? No. Unless, as I say, you hold the Greater Good, the unchanging well-being of your stilted society, as higher than the right of individuals of whatever persuasion to live unfettered.

[stevegreen]

Excellent piece. Makes me wish I was still producing a fanzine, so I could ask to publish it.

[immortalradical]

t's that coexistence is not possible without one or other party being shackled.

Precisely. Because people are gits, regardless of their gender. Why, I bet we're not beyond drugging people to force them into acting how we want and expect them to act, in order to justify our extermination of them.

The problem anyone defending the solution the women of Houston, Houston enact is that it is simply morally unacceptable to kill people for your own convenience, which by your own admission is precisely what they do. I would have assumed this was a pretty uncontroversial viewpoint but apparently the rules change when it comes to discussing feminist SF stories.

[coalescent]

it is simply morally unacceptable to kill people for your own convenience, which by your own admission is precisely what they do.

No, it's exactly what they don't do.

[immortalradical]

Of course, I forgot - the man denied the opportunity of a decent and vital life chooses to kill himself. Of course! I'd never realized that despairing suicide was in fact something to celebrate.

[coalescent]

Which part of my calling the story a tragedy did you think meant I was celebrating the ending?

[tinimaus]

*Blows on her smoking scrolling-finger*
I take it the trip to Germany was rather boring then?

Wonderful piece

[johnnyeponymous]

I've always loved Tiptree's take on the world, though there are a few works where I almost throw-up my hands and say 'OK, I get it!'.

If you're interested, I'm looking for a few 100 word exactly articles and reviews for the January 31st issue of The Drink Tank. I'd love to have something from ya
Chris

[stevegreen]

I tried to volunteer for that at your site; reply got blocked.

Weird.

[johnnyeponymous]

Just send an email to garcia@computerhistory.org with whatever you got.
That's the one thing I dislike about LJ: as often as I say 'Let anyone reply' it always blocks people
Chris

Re: Weird.

[stevegreen]

IIRC, the posting was "friends only", and I don't have any.