Failing at romance is a pattern I know well. . .

[chronarchy]

MJD: So, for Valentine's Day, I'm apparently going the the ballet.
Tina: Does she know you hate ballet?
M: I don't hate ballet. I hated Dracula. I don't mind the classical stuff, and can even get excited about it. I don't necessarly get it, but there's good music and nifty things going on. I just can't wrap my head around the more modern styles at

Comments

[tanrinia]

romance to me? coming home to a house that someone has cleaned and vacuumed for me :)

but then i'm pretty easy to please...

[chronarchy]

*nods* Different definitions abound here :)

There's this saying that roles around now and again: "Nothing is sexier than a man in a nice, white dress shirt with his sleeves rolled up in and his hands in the sink washing dishes."

There are many women, it seems who agree with that statement from time to time (most don't agree with it always, though).

[nontacitare]

As a woman who is not too abnormal (although there are those who would disagree with that ;-) ), here is how I see romance. Romance is about sharing yourself with another, and allowing her to share herself with you. For most women, romance is intimacy. Thus, if you enjoy hiking and she enjoys hiking, hiking might be the most romantic thing you can do. I've experienced men approaching romance as a game, or as a computer program (if I type in these commands, you will turn into this, which is what I want), and been insulted by it. To go back to the ballet example, it depends on how you approach it. If you're thinking, "Quid pro quo. I took you to the ballet, which I hate. Now you owe me," it's a problem. But if you're thinking, "You're a really cool person and I want to get to know you better. Explain to me what you actually get out of people contorting themselves while listening to old-fashioned music," then that's very romantic

[chronarchy]

I admit, I've never felt "owed" anything by a woman. I generally feel that I owe them just for being willing to hang out with me :) Besides, women are far more amazing than I am. So, yeah, what I'm thinking is, "The ballet isn't for me, but I kinda like you, and thus I'd like to do something you'd like to do." I don't know if it's necessary for her to try and explain it. . . I am not sure I can grasp it. . . most arts are outside my ability to understand and grasp with any competence. Of course, if she'd like to, I'll listen, but I'll also tell her up front, "Hey, you realize I don't get it, right?"

It's been sent to her, earlier today, with the statement that it would be nice if she asked questions if she had any :)

[nontacitare]

It's been sent to her, earlier today, with the statement that it would be nice if she asked questions if she had any :)

Good plan. Honest communication is always very romantic. ;-)

[wylde_chylde99]

personally for me, if i know or suspect my date isn't enjoying himself it wouldn't be enjoyable. it wouldn't be worth going at all. and the idea that you specifically know you wont' enjoy it but are going only because you think its romantic that way, well, i certainly wouldn't find that romantic.

Part, the First

[whitmanschild]

I think I get you on this, MJD. I really do. On everything, that is, except for your definition of "romantic," which I find fairly ridiculous in that it precludes the possibility of you ever enjoying romance or romantic things. I think you misunderstand romance in believing that your recontextualization of it into a game, complete with calculation, strategy, planning and desired end-goal (which you describe as cold) is not romantic. Here's why.

Romance and intimacy are linked because one inspires the other. Intimacy is just the knowledge, the familiarity, the understanding of another person's experience and perspective on things, and then checking your identification with that person. It's knowing the inside joke, understanding that person's feelings, etc. Having that knowledge, that understanding is either going to inspire in you a sense of sympathy, antipathy or apathy (ie. you could be very intimate with a hated enemy). In the case of a significant relationship that is commonly referred to as "romantic," we're going to

Part, the Second

[whitmanschild]

Romance, then, is the actions that you're inspired to undertake because you have strong feelings of sympathy, love, identification, appreciation, etc for a specific person (probably of your preferred gender to get naked with). You show your SO that you understand them, their feelings, their perspective, their wants and needs, etc, through the medium of your own character. That's where the thoughtfulness happens (and all of the planning for your particular brand of romance). For you, the act of recontextualizing something that your would normally dislike into something that you can enjoy (or at least tolerate) IS an act of romance, so long as you're not trying to keep accounts. There IS romance in turning a trip to the ballet into a game, no matter how cold you tell yourself the calculations are. Why? Because you both get what you want and enjoy yourselves and further the cause of mutual intimacy by adding to your shared experiences. You get the game of it, she gets the ballet--she is happy and you are happy. But (and this is

Re: Part, the Second

[whitmanschild]

Also, my apologies if all of that seems like some arrogant pontification from on high. It's really just my opinion, or reality as I see it, or however you want to frame it. *ducks back down for fear of flying crockery*

Re: Part, the Second

[chronarchy]

Nah, I agree with you, in general, too. I can see your perspective well, but I'm not sure that I am able to operate entirely in the realms you discuss, though I wish I could :)

tooooo funny

[lizcrosssmith]

Hmmm... My comment is so much more simplistic than eveyone else's comments seem to have been. But the truth is, I found your comment, "Thus, when I find something I don't want to do, my first thought is often, 'Hey, that'd be a great date!'" the funniest thing I've read in days -- possibly weeks. In fact, every time I re-read it, I start to laugh all over again. So, thanks for the giggles -- and good luck on V-day.

Re: tooooo funny

[lizcrosssmith]

Dentist: I'm afraid you need a root canal.
MJD: Can I bring a date?

Liz (still laughing my butt off)

Re: tooooo funny

[nontacitare]

That is just brilliant.