Jesus, Choice, Love, and Gay Marriage Rights

[princessodyssey]

Posted this on my personal journal, then thought I might come over and post it here, too.

From Philip Yancey's The Jesus I Never Knew. which is just amazing me right now:

The more I get to know Jesus, the more impressed I am with what Ivan Karamazov called 'the miracle of restraint.' The miracles Satan suggested, the signs and wonders the

Comments

[catecumen]

To me, free will is the whole point of creating human beings, so I could never understand the whole neo-Calvinist determinist approach.

[princessodyssey]

Detrminist as far as what? That things have a pre-determined outcome?

Determinism

[logicalargument]

The Calvinist kind of determinism that I'm talking about is the belief that God decides ahead of time who will be saved and who will not, and makes the "elect" receptive to salvation but deliberately blocks the rest from it. Effectively, there is no free will at all - and to me, that is unconscionable. I can't worship a deity who decides before someone is born that the person cannot be saved and is doomed to eternal torment.

Re: Determinism

[fireflitty]

I don't consider myself a Calvinist, but I do believe that God is outside of time. If I think about predestination too much I start to get a headache, but there are references to it in the Bible. But since God made time, he's not bound by it.

[djstarfox]

The Great Assumption (that's actually in the Bible) is that if you choose to follow Jesus' teaching, then be prepared to show restraint towards the worlds' offerings and love people in a way that most others do not.

Within a community (especially a religious one), there needs to be some consistency in its members' values and beliefs. If you address these issues, some people will leave. If you don't, those issues become a big "elephant in the room". Problems occur when these believes are enforced outside the community. The intention behind this is good, but that's not how others usually see it nor is it ethical toward those who oppose those values.

Ultimately, it's more important to love people where they are and let them choose, than to force them to conform. The history books have been especially harsh toward Christians who fail to understand this.

[princessodyssey]

Within a community (especially a religious one), there needs to be some consistency in its members' values and beliefs. If you address these issues, some people will leave. If you don't, those issues become a big "elephant in the room".

It makes me sad that this is the case. I wish-I wish Chritians who have differing views were better at dialoguing with one another.

Problems occur when these believes are enforced outside the community. The intention behind this is good, but that's not how others usually see it nor is it ethical toward those who oppose those values.

Ultimately, it's more important to love people where they are and let them choose, than to force them to conform. The history books have been especially harsh toward Christians who fail to understand this.

Good point, and thank you.