questions of the Catholic church

[whune]

Is it true that the catholic church charged money to have people raised from purgatory?

'Upon this rock I build my church'
What connection does the Catholic church claim, between itself, and Peter?

Comments

[underlankers]

Yes, they did charge money to get people out of purgatory. It was called indulgences. Abuses of that system in Germany prompted Luther to divide the Church. The Church, after the Borgias got their grimy hands on the papacy was desperate for money, and indulgences were perfect for getting it. Herr Luther disliked that, and thus was laid the groundwork for the Reformation.

The Catholic Church's claim to separation from the Eastern Orthodox is that St. Cephas/Peter was the first Bishop of Rome, martyred there under Nero Augustus when he persecuted the Christians after the Great Fire. That meant that the See of Rome was an apostolic See, the only one in the West. Traditional Catholicism sees Peter as the temporal founder of Church authority under the Papacy, and Jesus ultimately as its head.

Any other questions?

[lordhellebore]

Because sources from outside are not going to be biased in the other direction, and others surely must know best about Catholic history and practice *nods* Logical.

[whune]

that's fair.

I wasn't being honest:
my perception of Catholic Church being incredibly hypocritical... inspires much distrust in me.

I'm much more interested in say [third party] article/s on the matter: observing purely from the perspective of history, for it's own sake.

[underlankers]

Where exactly are you to find objectivity? Bias exists in all sources, particularly on issues of the Church and its history.

You make the mistake some other people do of looking for answers impossible to find and then throwing a hissy fit when the impossible is exactly that: impossible.

No sources like you describe have survived. And sources make history...

So...

everyone is biased, but not about the same things

[whune]

a historical article, written by say an atheist, about a particular segment of 'Christianity' isn't likely to be biased to the point of outright lying about something like that.

Re: everyone is biased, but not about the same things

[underlankers]

That's naivety.

Atheists dislike all religion, and have little understanding of the religion they discuss, often. Many atheists that profess admiration of Siddhartha Gautama can't distinguish between Theravada and Mahayana and which one the Dalai Lama professes (neither, he's part of a third branch). And you wish to trust them on issues of Christian theology?

Oy vey.

who said anything about theology?

[whune]

this has squat to do with theology, and everything to do with the allegation that the Catholic church psychologically manipulated the people, for money.

Re: who said anything about theology?

[underlankers]

The issue of indulgences came out of purgatory. That's an area of theological disagreement between Protestants and Catholics. Atheists see that as all ooga-booga to them. They aren't likely to have actually studied the perspective on it. You want a less-biased perspective, look up what the Orthodox think. Atheists should not be trusted on matters of religion, any more than religious people should be trusted on matters related to atheism.

Re: who said anything about theology?

[whune]

history reports on 'ooga-booga' all teh time

it's simple: 'did they advertise salvation from purgatory, for loved ones, for 'mere coin'?'
that's pretty back-and-white.

Re: who said anything about theology?

[martiancyclist]

Yes, but who exactly "they" were is less black-and-white.

Re: who said anything about theology?

[whune]

at any rate

if catholic.com is any authority... the point is now moot:

http://community.livejournal.com/christianity/3389449.html?thread=74501641#t74501641

Re: who said anything about theology?

[martiancyclist]

Still, was it "Catholicism" doing it or Catholics doing it? The distinction is pretty important.

Re: who said anything about theology?

[whune]

What strikes me as more important is that it wasn't stopped for fifty years
and only after Luther made a stink about it.

I don't believe in coincidence
I do believe in the stinking corpses of scapegoats though.

Re: who said anything about theology?

[martiancyclist]

Most problems only get fixed after someone complains. That's the way people are.

Re: who said anything about theology?

[underlankers]

Yes, they did.

At the time, with the Ottomans poised to invade Christendom, with the legacy of the Borgia and Medici papacies, with the aftermath caused by uncertainty after the fall of Constantinople to the Ottomans, with the steadily ongoing collapse of the rigid, constrictive medieval society...

I fail to see what else was going to happen. Our ancestors sometimes made hard choices, and sometimes the wrong choices. That's no reason to damn them for it.

Re: who said anything about theology?

[napoleonofnerds]

Define "they."