Wifely Submission

[solaecclesia]

Brothers and sisters,

Last night my girlfriend and I were debating the limits, bounds, and concept of a wife's submission to her husband (or more specifically 'husbandly authority') as seemingly declared in Ephesians 5:21-33 (contained below in the LJ cut.)

Comments

[muffledlaugh]

much of what you wrote here i can agree with. Paul writes that men are to love their wives as Christ loves his Church, and as quite the independant and strong woman, i would find it impossible to *not* submit to someone who was able to show me that kind of love, devotion, and care.

however, and this could be my cynicism talking, i find it hard to believe that any human man would be able to mimic Christ's love perfectly. mutual submission is what it really boils down too, because if you love someone-- i mean, real, selfless love of another-- you devote yourself to that person fully, which involves making sacrifices or putting your pride on the shelf for the sake of another; and this should be done by both partners. i think that is the kind of relationship that can represent the love of Christ for his Church most realistically.

it is unfortunate that there are men who choose to grossly misinterpret Paul's writing that wives submit to their husbands to justify abuses within a relationship.

[xenaclone]

I've been told by Biblical scholars that the requests Paul gives to wives was exactly what the customs of the times expected. The real controversial humdinger was the instruction to husbands! Remember, this was a society where women largely = property.

If the husband really does love his wife 'as Christ loves the church' then she should have no problem 'submitting'.

XC

[gtrnvox]

the requests Paul gives to wives was exactly what the customs of the times expected... Remember, this was a society where women largely = property.

Neither of those assertions are true; Paul's instructions to the church did not involve treating women as property and the life of the Hellenized women in the Roman Empire was not one of "being property."

To be considered a biblical scholar, one typically is recognized in the field, is published, etc. Is that what you mean when you use the term?

[log_junkie]

As a woman, some might think it odd that I love this discourse on marital love, but if you understand its context, especially within the scope of the Theology of the Body, then it is beautiful.

[22] Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord.

When I am subject to the Lord, it is then that I find true freedom. If I am subject to a husband who is of the Lord, then I can find the same joy. The word submission has negative connotation because we think of becoming subject to someone who lords over us. But, as later verses detail, a true husband would give even his life for the woman he loves, much as Christ gave His life for His bride. To be subject to a man who loves me as Christ loves me is a wonderful thing.

In this context, man and woman find true love and true freedom. They can participate in the union of souls, an image meant to reflect the eternal mystery of God. I think that is fantastic news.

[lordhellebore]

What I have problems with (aside from the fact that I'm speaking completely hypothetical, as I refuse to accept a teaching about gender roles from 2000 years ago) is that no husband could possibly love his wife even remotely like Christ loved the Church, no matter how willing and how hard he tries.

[uberreiniger]

We are told to emulate Christ all the time. Why should this be any different?

[lordhellebore]

Because this is giving another faulty human being far too much power over yourself and even justifying it with the Bible. It's dangerous, imho.

[uberreiniger]

As much as I dislike tutal, I like his explanation further down on this page.

[mardena]

Wow, that's a beautiful explanation.

[mardena]

That is so amazing. I can only hope that I will be the same way with my husband when we are old and gray.

Actually, my husband told me a story from when he was visiting with his (elderly) aunt and uncle 2 summers ago: his aunt brought his uncle some drinks and walked off. His uncle turned to everyone in the room and said with a twinkle in his eye, "Isn't she wonderful?"